Jesus-loving single ladies, this blog is for you:
i would love to hear from single Jesus-loving ladies who read this blog. This seems to be a really huge cry from Jesus-loving women out there and i really think it’s important that we address it and hear both sides. I don’t believe this is only a guy responsibility. I think there are issues on both sides of this dilemma and the best way to move forward on it is to hear from girls and guys in the situation.
Here are some of my questions for you:
* what are the main issues that you have with regards to this situation? [There are no decent guys in the church? The guys aren’t asking you out? The guys aren’t serious in relationships?] Help us define the problem.
* what do you think the girls are contributing to the issue and where do you need to take responsibility? [Do guys feel intimated by Christian girls? Are your standards too high in terms of ‘the perfect guy’? Are you approachable? Have girls been playing games so much that the guys are over it?]
* What do guys do or fail to do that exacerbates the issue?
* Are there any things that you can do to make it easier for the guys to initiate relationship/ask you out?
In case you were not yet aware of what issue we are talking about, the topic was raised when I wrote that you need to date someone who has Jesus as their number one focus. A bunch of girls responded by saying “where are these guys?” – either they don’t exist (Christ-following girls outnumber Christ-following guys in church) or else they are not asking us out.
Your comments will be most appreciated. Hopefully we can start to get to the bottom of this and at least find some ways of making things easier for both sides.
I think for us Christian types, the whole dating issue got *too* heavy. We so desperately want to find that permanent person and somehow got confused to the point were we feel that even a first getting-to-know-each-other date is a promise of lifelong commitment. So now the guys are too afraid to ask the girls out because they do not want to hurt the girl by “rejecting” them after 1 or 2 dates.
I think guys need to start asking girls out quicker and girls need to grow up and realize that a first date is for getting to know each other and more often than not, will not result in the love of your life. But at least then we will HAVE first dates which over some time might lead to second dates and and and…
I agree that we have over complicated things in this area and especially that us girls tend to start planning the wedding in our heads when a guy so much as looks in our direction, I definitely think that is something that we can be aware of. And I have found when I have been able to not do this there are less pressure on my friendship relationships with guys in general.
shot! well said!
From the comments that I have read on both pages, this is a big pot of things that people want to talk about but haven’t said anything until now, and now the pot is boiling over.
I did not think I would comment but when I read your comment (Helene), it hit the nail on the head for me. I find myself in two places and one of them is the perfect opposite of what you have written.
I am a single guy who is interested in someone, we have dated in the past but she called it off because she is afraid of marriage. Just to be clear, I did not propose or hint at the fact that I would like to get married, but from the start of our relationship it was in her mind that “at some point of time, that would be the outcome”. I know her very well, but do not know her past that well and it frustrated me, because I was not even thinking about it. I now sit in a place where we are still very good friends but it cannot go further than that. I love her with the love of the Lord but I cannot love her more than that because she rejects it, thinking it would lead to the big M. My thoughts are that relationships progress, dating is sort of an interview to get to know the person and that Marriage is obviously from God, and that through prayer and seeking His face, a couple would know when is the right time.
This leaves me in a spot, do I wait (which I am doing, willingly). The other thought that I read about recently, and one which bothered me was “How long do I wait”. I have tried to move on, yet feel myself returning to the same spot. I read a thought by somebody pretty much saying that sometimes you have to let go of somebody and move out of your comfort zone (might even have been one of brett’s blogs).
The other place I find myself in, is something that one of the guys brought up on the other page. I find myself serving in the Church, I have a passion for the youth, but it stops me from meeting others to make friends and socialising. I do not mean, that I want to make friends to meet that special someone who loves the Lord as much as I do, but just to make friends, fullstop. Friends that can make life-long bonds and climb the mountains of life with me.
This is a really cool discussion going on, on both sides. Hope to follow it fully, like I said at the start, it seems that it was needed. My point, remove the complications and take it SSSSLLLLOOOOWWWW.
I think that, firstly, we as humans put too much emphasis on dating. I have nothing against it, but what happened to Paul’s little rant on being single?
Then, there is the whole ‘date for marriage’ jig. I love it, but it does scare off the guys a lot. They only ask a girl out when they are almost ready to propose.
There’s that awkwarditiy when you break up and you go to the same church. No one really knows how to handle it. Especially if, after a while, he/she wants to date someone else. He/she are likely to be labled as someone who is working their way through the congregation.
There’s a lot of expectation put on the couple. It scares me, so it must scare others too.
very cool comments so far. helene you are right. things get too heavy too quickly. people just need to relax into a relationship more. and then ask the bigger questions after awhile.
we get too intense too quickly…
I’m so glad this topic has been opened and people are talking. I’ve been a single Christian girl for most of my life and I’m nearing the big 4-0 and still am struggling to find “the guy”. I could write a book…maybe I should?
So my thoughts on this are many and varied and not altogether solidified into one sound byte.
but to put it simply, I think we put too much expectation on each other. Dating should be fun. Simply getting to know someone as a friend. if something develops great! if not…you have a new friend.
As girls we need to let go of the need to find Mr Perfect. I can’t tell you how many friends have said to me…”make a list of what you want and pray about it…it’s when I made my list that God sent me my husband…” ok, no offence…but I don’t think God is waiting for me to make a list and ask him for what I want. I’ve already asked, He knows, I think He’s waiting for me to get off my butt and get out there and meet some people who may or may not tick all the boxes of my checklist.
Don’t be afraid to make a mistake. It’s in our mistakes that we learn who we are, who we want to be and build our character and humanity. We become more forgiving of others’ mistakes when we’ve made our own.
And mostly I think we need to allow men to be men. We complain that they aren’t stepping up?? whatever that means…I think that we are just used to trying to change them into what we want that they’ve lost interest in trying to please us. Fall in love with someone for who they are, not who you want them to be or think they could be. And before you fall in love, get to know who they are by spending time with them…oh and don’t start planning the wedding till he’s actually asked you. Expectations are built by unrealisticly living in the future. Live in the present reality.
and just in case you’re wondering…I have a blind date tonight with someone who sounds really nice and normal…I’ll keep the wedding dress in bubble wrap for now though 😉
Really valid points raised so far! I agree with most of them and to pick up one of SammiD’s points, there are ALWAYS people giving conflicting “advice” (the whole list thing), that it sometimes becomes hard to know what to listen to!! I attend a large church and when people hear I fellowship there, their first response is “Why are you still single?” It’s as if they think that church is a dating agency, so the bigger the “pool” the better.
Us girls do tend to plan the wedding (everything down to the colour of the serviettes!) on the first date, so a good dose of reality is always a good idea! Personally, I feel that Christian guys don’t “step-up” largely because of the way society is programmed these days – the whole equal rights bit, etc. So they think that if a girl likes them, why does SHE not make the first move. Your thoughts on this?
P.S. I hope you have a good blind date SammiD : )
Thanks Leeza! it will involve Sushi so at the very least I get supper without having to cook! see? low expectations…LOL
and on knowing who to listent to? my best advice is to do what’s right for you. there is no formula. I’ve made a lot of mistakes but I regret nothing I’ve done. it’s made me who I am. I do however regret the things I didn’t do…take a chance. risk a little. you may get hurt, you may make a mistake, but the God I love and serve is faithful to forgive, faithful to lift you back up and keep loving you. And the most important thing is to not stop living and enjoying life just because you’re waiting for Mr Perfect. Take it from me, you can be almost 40, single and HAPPY!
I used to go to the Church youth groups, but found all the girls to be very clicky. It was difficult to get to know them and they wouldn’t let anyone in their groups. There were guys there, and all the women would go for the guys who played the guitar or sang in the Church bands. It was a bit disheartening as some girls would be quite nice, but they would be obsessed with some other guy there. If I asked any out or even spoke to any, they would laugh at me or say NO.
I eventually gave up on looking for girls there. After a couple years, I started going to nightclubs. There were plenty more girls to choose from and some were very eager to get to know me. I decided that it was better to meet women at these places than at a youth group. There were some really pretty girls dancing and hanging around there. Some would brush you off, but more often than not, women would say yes, and date me. It would get physical quite quickly, but at that time I did not care. Its easy to get lost in the moment after many beers and shots, on the dark dancefloor with a hot girl. So that was my life for many a year. Not fullfilling really on an emotional level, but definitely on a physical level. It was also exciting to go out with the guys and make an evening of grabbing women.
After many years I eventually met a woman and settled down. But I can easily see why guys and girls choose the club route. That feeling of rejection at a youth group can drive one to all kinds of dark places.
My suggestion is to mix the groups a bit more so that there are more guys and girls in groups, also smaller groups. They should take the focus off guys playing in the band or whatever as this sidelines all the other guys.
Gonna be real and honest… I know a lot of good Christian guys that try their best to live the way Christ have called us to live. I have lots of respect for them.
On the other hand, I’ve experienced and I’ve seen this happen to quite a few girls in the church, some single church going guys lack integrity in their relationships, dating, courtship, etc. I’ve seen a lot of girls get hurt this way and most of them only get a shrug and a “scriptural” excuse as justification from these guys. This hurts more, because somehow this guy is giving you a scripture to justify the hurt he’s caused you. And yes, these are guys that go to cell and sing in the worship team and so forth, so yes, on a level they must know its wrong.
For girls that have been hit by this quite a few times, it is quite dishearting and hurtful. We develope walls around us and then view guys in the church with sceptism.
I, by no means are saying that the girls’ responses are right and are not making light of the value of forgiveness and the healing Jesus can do in one’s heart.To girls, I would say that this should be our first response.
I don’t expect the guys in church to be infallible, but shouldn’t the guys in the church have more weight to their word and more integrity in their conduct than those out in the world?
Just mentioning the flipside that few acknowledge.
some good comments on the blog (for the men)…
check it out: http://brettfish.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/i-kissed-dating-part-step-up-both-of-you-for-the-men
I totally agree with the fact that people have over emotionalised (word invention hi-five) and complicated dating. I have a new theory – I think a lot of that has got to do with technology actually.
I’m experiencing something now that has really opened my eyes to this.
There’s this awesome Christian guy that studies with me. We’re both obviously interested in each other to some extent – very much mutual attraction there.
But he doesn’t have facebook, he doesn’t have mxit/whatsapp/bbm/etc. There is basically no way to talk to the guy unless you’re sending a quick text or actually speaking to his face.
So things with us are going UBER slowly. And it’s so awesome. We hang out and have the most amazing times just being friends. And we get to experience that old-school suspense and wonder of what “dating” should be… of not being completely immediately in someones head.
I think that today’s chat technology makes it so difficult (if not impossible) for things to go slow. People are able to let down their guards so easily through text chats. And before a relationship has even begun to begin, all of everyone’s emotions and what not are already blatantly on the table. This creates some sort of an illusion of an emotional attachment and leads to many a complex situation.
I think especially with Christian dating, people need to remember old-school friendship.. Get to know someone BEFORE you get into a relationship, rather than getting into a relationship (or creating some emotional connection) and finding out a few months and broken hearts later that you’re actually not really suited.
I don’t know.. what do you think? Maybe this only applies to a younger contingent.
hey ash, i think what you say is incredibly spot on… the technology thing, the chill and be friends thing… maybe more especially for younger people but i think actually for older as well – they have cars and money and the ability to create their chill space even easierly…high five…
I agree with a lot of the things said. A few years ago I was one of thise girls so frustrated with Christian guys and wanting them to get off their butts and step up. But then God taught me a few things and the answers were very different to what i thought they were. He taught me to seek after Him first with all my heart and be satisfied in Him alone. He taught me that I could trust Him with my life and that He is good no matter how things are looking and even in they work out differently to how I expected.
It was a hard lesson and although I did all these things it was still difficult sometimes but mostly I was finding my satisfaction in Him and knowing that I was worth loving no matter what happened.
And then (not because of anything that I did right) God sent along an amazing, Godly man in a way I knew could only be God (it’s a long story!) who was completely different to the man I thought I wanted, but totally right for me. And he wanted to honour God completely in our relationship and not do the usual ‘dating’ thing (eg. ‘how pure can we keep ourselves for marriage’). We’re now very happily married.
I’m so grateful God protected me from a relationship when I was desperate otherwise I would hate to think how I would have messed it up!
Most of the guys you’re speaking of are generally late teens/ early twenties. These guys attend the Church youth group and discover quickly that they hardly have a chance with the girls there. The girls there are all too pre-occupied with attracting the attention of the leaders or other popular guys at these meetings. This makes the guys disillusioned with chatting to girls at these meetings. Sometimes it makes them disillusioned with youth groups or even Church as a whole as people use the Church to promote their success with the girls.
The girls should admit that they are attracted to these people for reasons other than “because he is such a good Christian” .
They should admit that its because he is in a popular position of power and women are attracted to power.
If you’re a regular guy who cannot play an instrument or is not too good at public speaking then unless you look like Brad Pitt, you have no chance at these groups with the girls. Not that girls is the only reason for being there, but once the guy realizes that other guys there are using the Bible in that way, they become a little disillusioned with the whole situation, rejection, power-mongering and popularity contests.
Guys quickly realize this and leave. We head to the pubs where the girls are more real.
Guy, that’s really not true in a lot of cases. I’m sad that that is clearly what you’ve had to deal with from girls in church. But you really shouldn’t generalise.
A lot of the Christian guys I’ve been attracted to, I’ve met outside of church where I have no idea of what they do there… but because Christ is really evident in them, they’re super attractive!
I think Brian has a point. It may be a generalisation. However, we all have aspirations to “be the best we can be,” and that can translate into “be with the best you can be with,” which translates into grading other human beings. We feel it intensely when we are and when we’re not desired by others. If you’re one of the guys who can play an instrument and can speak publicly, then you’re at the top of the list. We all would like someone who worships Jesus with intimate intensity, and those who get to ‘perform’ this are at the top of the list. I can play an instrument and speak publicly and tend to get attention for it. My friends who have other gifts struggle to get the time of day. The more I grow in my gifting, the more I have to be wary of the attention and focus on the reason I am doing these things.
whats with knocking guys who play instruments? i play bass in church.
I don’t get chicks.
I don’t even feel sense of power with a guitar, besides I have weedy looking arms.
leave the musos alone… 🙂 lol
Yeah, you do have a point John. I think all people have even a little bit of that mentality… It’s like a human condition.
But I know, for me, I’m not someone who’ll want to be with a guy just because he is part of an on-stage ministry. What Brian said kind of paints the picture that there is no such thing as a girl looking for a genuinely Godly guy – that all girls just want the guys they see on stage and never look further than that.
Not true, at least for me.
I woke up this morning with this thought:
(and it was confirmed by the lady/girl who emailed Brett and he posted it this morning.)
There have been many discussions going on about theis who is right and how do we get right for girls or vica versa?
But are we not missing the point of church? or youth groups? or even just our lives.
I was reminded of this verse this morning: Matthew 6: 33 “Seek first His kingdom and all His righteousness and all these things will be added unto you.”
In other words… this should start with God. We’re at church or youth or cell to be enpowered for God. we’re here for God’s glory. God’s not just “interest”
God, if I go to these cool church things.. the “interest” I want… is a girl/boy friend?
Maybe we should be living to bring fame to Jesus.
Live out abundant lives (John 10: 10), because that is an attractive quality in itself.
Don’t merely exist for Jesus, live passionately for Him.
Then in His time, Jesus the bride of the church (cool imagery), will bring someone our way.
By His spirit, He may even nudge your heart, and say: “psst, this is the girl/guy … talk to them”
But if we’re just on the hunt all the time, that’s just unhealthy.
well, those are just some of my thoughts…over and out.
I am a single Christian lady, who have also been battling with the whole ‘my husband’ issue! But our AWESOME God has been working with me the last year or so in such an incredible way regarding this issue, and it made me rethink the way we as Christians handle this…
We, as ladies(especially single Christian ladies), are so concerned about meeting Mr. Right or Mr. Perfect that we neglect our 1st love i.e. Jesus Christ! We want to fill a gap…but most of the time that gap is not the gap for Mr Right, it is for the Lord. Our Lover is jealous of this as he says in His Word so many times…first spend time on your relationship with your number 1 Lover; then a lot of things will change. I’ve been doing this, and it is sooo satisfying! 😀 Do not get me wrong, i still want to meet my husband, but that urgency is not there anymore. Since my perspective on the issue has shifted, i now have a lot more mature friendship relationships with Christian guys and it is so awesome! Having a better relationship with Jesus, I also have more peace about the whole husband issue. I know I will get married in God’s perfect timing, as I trust Him for the man he has planned for me 🙂
I think that the right guy, will step up because God told him he should. I think that there is no point in messing arround with anyone but Gods best. I may be old fashioned, but guys are the ones that have to make the first move and I just think we need to lay off all the christian guys out there… because there might be 5 girls longing after the same guy but his heart is only for one girl and when she comes along, he will step up, no doubt about that. . . its in Gods hands, stop stressing…. you are not big enough to screw up Gods plans for your life… so fix your eyes on Jesus and eventually some one will come along to interrupt yout walk and ask if he can join you on your journey…. just give him a chance.
oh and lists! please…. (ok i use to have one…) but seriously… imagine the guy sat opposite you with a lists and you just didnt cut it… exactly. . . hurts doesnt it?! give the guys a break… and start becoming miss right instead of looking for a mr right to match your imperfections.
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I read thru a lot of the posts, but not all of them ,so pls forgive me if someone else said this. Part of the problem has been caused by the teaching of christian leaders (making ev1 uber cautious). So part of the solution is for christian leaders to start solving the problem – by teaching good stuff, healthy stuff, saying how it should be. Get guys talking about it in groups, likewise the girls, and then bring the groups together. One church I was in, the pastor basically told the young people to stop being so picky and get on with dating each other. It opened the floodgates, and people started getting married within a year or so of that sermon!
thankx Billybob – yeah great teaching is a must and some churches get caught up in teaching the theology of things without spending enough time on the practice [and i guess others get it wrong the other way] but getting people talking seems like a good way to go about it. “Stop being picky” sounds like it might be a powerful message many could use hearing!