A week or so ago, i received an email from an old friend of mine who is currently living outside of South Africa and who asked to remain anonymous. Let’s call him ‘Bob’. Bob emailed me some thoughts about the current situation in South Africa and his feeling as a white South African at this time.
As i read through Bob’s mail i had some strong reactions to some of the stuff he is saying, based on some of the continuing conversations i have had with some of my black friends and the new history of South Africa that i am starting to learn as i read books and have conversations with people. At the same time, i don’t doubt Bob’s sincerity and know a lot of other sincere white South Africans who are also genuinely saying and asking some of these things. So i decided to pass it on to a few of my friends who i have been having conversation with on these issues and see if they would come up with a response. A couple of them have and i will share their responses, starting tomorrow, but firstly i wanted to share Bob’s story and invite you to really try and hear what he is saying, not as an overt racist or troll or someone trying to stir, but someone who is genuinely feeling this way and asking these questions.
i would love for you to respond in the comments section, but i am going to carefully moderate this conversation so there will be no space for ridiculousness. This is an opportunity to hear and respond to some of the concerns and fears from a white South African at this time living overseas
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My writing is generally not brilliant (grammar and may be a bit jumbled). Hopefully my thoughts and questions will be clearly understood though.
I am a white South African and I feel I have no place in the country I grew up in and love. I generally love the people of South Africa no matter their background, race, creed or culture. I am though frustrated with what has been going on over the past couple of months.
The leaders only seem to be interested in making sure they are comfortable and wealthy, while most of the people of South Africa struggle to eke out a living. Crime is high, service delivery is worse than disgusting and parliament has become a global joke…one our own president seems to have a good laugh at.
However despite this all and after 20+ years its the fault of apartheid, the Dutch and the English. Let’s be honest it will take a great deal of time for South Africa to come right and for a while we were on a decent track, now we are in reverse. Maybe that is part of the cathartic process, but does it have to be?
I feel that even though I grew up towards the end of apartheid and I was brought up in a family that opposed it and did their bit to support the struggle, I am a racist by association and dont belong in South Africa.
I understand to the best that I can as a white person, white privilege. Yes I went to a decent school and college but my Dad worked damn hard to get me there and yes while he may have got his job because he was white he still had to sacrifice a lot to support us, by being away for 9 months of every year.
Whats interesting about Cape Town (and I can only speak from a cape townian perspective) is the culture cliques. English, Afrikaaner, Muslims, Christians, Coloured and Black South Africans stick together and will generally support people from their own community.
Is this racist? Perhaps. Maybe its just we as people like to hang out with people like us.
Recently there was a documentary in the UK presented by the person Blair brought in (trevor Phillips) as Deputy Chair of the Board of the National Equality Standard. In it he raised a number of interesting points. One of which was that, in the most diverse area in the UK, Leicester, they discovered something called sunset segregation. This is not imposed by government, politicians or law, but self imposed.
He noted that people would be more than happy to work in harmony and mutual respect for each other. Come home time if you got on a bus you would know which direction the bus was going in based on the majority of the people who were on the bus with you. What was also interesting was that even within minority groups there was further sub segregation, for example people from Pakistan were in one area and within that area people from different Pakistan regions tended to group together. (please note that I in no way do I support or agree with how one group of people live in worse conditions than others. Nor do I agree with the group areas act, this was just a point that I found interesting about self imposed segregation)
So what has this to do with Cape Town. Well as a business owner in Cape Town my so called white privilege was non existent. I wasnt part of the Jewish community and so wasnt able to find clients there. I wasnt black and so larger companies who use freelancers were hesitant to use me because they didnt want to loose their BEE status. Likewise as a non muslim my business practices and ethics clashed with there beliefs and so they wouldnt work with me. But I blame no one and angry at no one for this, its the way of the world and its up to me to do something about it and make sure that I succeed and provide for my family.
So with that background, what have I to be angry, upset, irritated about?
Recently there was a discussion I came across along the lines of “Its time James Bond was Black”. Now I have no problem with whether JB is Black pink blue or green, but I did have a question. Would there be just as big of a discussion around the question of “Its time Shaft was played by a white actor”.
The response I got was that Shaft was created because their were no roles at that time that were being written for black actors and so therefore my point was irrelevant as Shaft was created to balance and imbalance. I then asked the question about why black actors who were better connected or got scholarships to top academies were getting the majority of roles while other less connected black actors didnt get cast. This question was also rubbished.
Why should the discussion be about race every single time? What about the top movie producers hunting for talent in poorer communities and academies?
I understand the west has a lot to answer for, but every nation on earth has at some point and to different degrees has enslaved and mistreated other nations. I also fully appreciate that the wounds of apartheid are a lot fresher than when the Romans ruled the UK or Egyptian empire was built on the backs of slaves.
After this happened the whole Rhodes statue issue at UCT came into play. There has been a lot of anger around this issue and while he wasnt the best person in the world, he did contribute to South Africa and is part of our history. Was he a colonist yes, were his methods and policies wrong YES… But what about the tribes and people who were displaced, and killed by King Shaka, if you say Rhodes stole land, then by the same token so did Shaka.
Where is the anger and the demanding of Shaka’s statue to be removed?
But that isn’t really the point. Statues may fall , but history stands. I dont believe you can learn from history if you try and erase it and replace it with a modern history. Auschwitz has not been torn down but servers as a reminder and a monument.
However I strongly believe that this anger a is miss placed. What about the real issues facing South Africa? Poor service delivery, corrupt police and politicians.
I also see this to be a protest of convenience. If Rhodes caused so much pain and South Africans as a whole want to remove all trace of him, then surely the things that he left as a legacy should also be removed, the Rhodes scholarship and other western/European traits were a result of his rule… infrastructure, technology, clothes and so on.
To be honest I have no idea what the New South Africa wants. We constantly hear that whites and Europeans must get out of South Africa and that “Western Imperialism” and interference is not wanted. Yet EVERY day in the UK there are adverts asking for donations for medicines and mosquito nets for Africa, to sponsor a South African child so they can be educated, to donate money to build wells and fresh drinking water in rural areas and so on (all while african leaders use the money they do get from their citizens to make themselves rich, take expensive trips, buy luxuries and lavish properties. Instead of building schools, distributing text books, upgrading power stations and hospitals). Recently I saw a request to sign a petition on Facebook to get David Cameron to denounce the recent xenophobic attacks in South Africa… but hang on… the message we hear from South Africa is that David Cameron must leave Africa alone.
Then there has also been the recent attacks in Kenya. A terrible atrocity and I condemn these attacks no matter where in the world these take place. The question though was asked why the West doesnt stand together united for Africa as they did for the French attacks and that African lives dont matter.
Well there is an incredibly close relationship between the US and Europe, closer than between Africa and the west. Ok Ok so that doesnt mean the West shouldnt stand with Africa…. Except the West is constantly being told by Africa to leave it alone.
I dont see Zuma and Mugabe walking linked armed with other African leaders after the Kenya attacks. So if African leaders dont show solidarity for their own union, why are people upset with the West for not doing so (especially as the west and Europeans are being told leave Africa alone). In fact (to my knowledge and stand to be corrected), while the xenophic attacks were taking place recently, Zuma and Mugabe were enjoying a dinner party in Mugabe’s honour, despite his human rights abuses against Zimbabweans (black and white).
It boils down to this…
I am white, I am made to feel ashamed of a history I had no control of and no one is interested in what a white person has to say because what ever they say or do is racist or from a point of white privilege. Yet Africa is happy to take my contribution whether it be a donation, or supporting a feeding scheme or giving free medical services to remote regions, then I am valued.
WHAT DOES SOUTH AFRICA WANT FROM ME AS AN ENGLISH SOUTH AFRICAN?
I am proud of the the positive history my community have and still make to South Africa. I cant be held to account for the VERY wrong policies that were put in place all those hundred odd years ago. I can though learn from their mistakes to ensure that my children dont grow up to one day impose and develop similar policies when they may be in power… in what ever country or community they are in.
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i will be sharing a response or two in the next few days – if you have one you would like to be considered as a post, email me at brettfish@hotmail.com otherwise feel free to share some thoughts in the comments section below, but play nice.
Marlyn [coloured guy] responds
Colette responds, not to Bob’s email specifically, but to this whole conversation
My friend Dre responds with some really helpful perspective
Martha Mmebe weighs in with how this conversation makes her feel as a black woman
[…] is a response to yesterday’s shared anonymous letter, What About Bob? and so if you have not read that yet, start there and then come back here and continue. Alexa is a […]
As a young Chinese man living south of Johannesburg, I would like to know my place in this country. I am of course well educated and have a degree in chemical engineering. I am here on a three year contract with the option of staying and bringing family. Some regard me as a neo-colonial. I am regarded as a foreigner but without the burden of apartheid hanging over my shoulders. Both black and white people feel threatened as there are many like me coming to South Africa. I feel discriminated against with BEE laws even though I am neither black nor white. I feel that I am paying the price for sins of the past where I had nothing to do with it. I think is is not unlike younger white people in your country. They are too paying the price for things they did not do. As an asian, I am also blamed for the killing of the Rhino where it has been proven to be both whites and blacks doing it. I know the market is in China and Vietnam, but then why is South Africa allowing this to continue. I predict that within 20 years, there will be about 35 percent of the population consisting of Chinese. This will be higher than all other minority groups. Can we expect a red carpet or a resistance to this?
Good question Wang and one of the complicated ones we will have to wrestle with as we move forwards i guess. I hear your pain and am sorry that you do not feel like you have a welcomed place in this country and i hope that as you get to know people and build relationships and bridges that that too will change. Hopefully there will come a time when we see people as people and don’t waste too much energy on colour of skin or background or nationality…
I am not sure if I can stay after the three years. It is a great country. Have you ever been to China? The environment is ruined. The air is very much like Johannesburg on a very bad day – all the time! If I had to choose, it would be Africa.
I wish we could see people as people but I fear it will be like this for at least another 50 years here in South Africa. I am not sure why your government is voted in time after time. I am not sure why there is so much violent crime in your country. I totally get that people are poor and would steal, but why so many violent crimes? Rapes? In China we have the death penalty – what is your view on this? Do you believe all can be rehabilitated from crime and this is why you don’t have it here? It could be a great deterrent.
i have not been to China, Wang, but my sister has and so i heard all about it and saw pictures. My dad has been to Singapore and shared some of the harsh laws they had there to keep crime away which sound like they work but also have people living in fear i imagine so tough one. i don’t think the death penalty is ever right because i believe everyone can be rehabilitated and to kill someone to prove to them that killing people is bad seems a little messed up. But i do wish our prisons were run better, more as rehabilitation that simply incarceration because i think that is a huge part of the problem. Definitely a lot of work to be done but hopefully we will see much change before that 50 years comes about.
Psychopath: “a person with a psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.”
Even them?
Even them. i believe that God is bigger. He can transform even the worst of people and those seemingly out of reach. Who are we to decide who it is okay to kill?
Feel free to not let this one go through…but I did really try to be civil and play nice…
1. “I am a white South African and I feel I have no place in the country I grew up in and love.”
The Freedom Charter clearly states that “South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white…” so maybe instead of waiting for people to make you feel welcomed/wanted in SA, you should just live in the knowledge that this is your home and no one has the right to say otherwise. If you love this country, stay and help build it.
2. “The leaders only seem to be interested in making sure they are comfortable and wealthy, while most of the people of South Africa struggle to eke out a living. Crime is high, service delivery is worse than disgusting and parliament has become a global joke…one our own president seems to have a good laugh at.
However despite this all and after 20+ years its the fault of apartheid, the Dutch and the English. Let’s be honest it will take a great deal of time for South Africa to come right and for a while we were on a decent track, now we are in reverse. ”
Apartheid laws may have ended, but the effects…the legacy of Apartheid is still very much alive today. As you say yourself, “it will take a great deal of time for South Africa to come right”. I agree with you most of the politicians in power are there for their own benefit and not to serve their people. I’m gonna have to disagree, though, that “for a while we were on a decent track, now we are in reverse.” I don’t think we are moving in reverse at all. Things are still changing. We are moving forward. We might not like Zuma and the incumbent government – there’s so very many things I don’t agree with them on, and I do criticize them on those points – but I still acknowledge the good that they do. Sometimes those changes don’t directly affect me, but I see the good happening for others, and I acknowledge it.
3. “Well as a business owner in Cape Town my so called white privilege was non existent. I wasn’t part of the Jewish community and so wasn’t able to find clients there. I wasn’t black and so larger companies who use freelancers were hesitant to use me because they didn’t want to loose their BEE status. Likewise as a non Muslim my business practices and ethics clashed with their beliefs and so they wouldn’t work with me. But I blame no one and angry at no one for this, its the way of the world and its up to me to do something about it and make sure that I succeed and provide for my family.”
I don’t think you understand White Privilege as well as you think you do…maybe read up on what it actually means a bit more…
4. “Recently there was a discussion I came across along the lines of “Its time James Bond was Black”. Would there be just as big of a discussion around the question of “Its time Shaft was played by a white actor”.”
The point of the discussion around a black James Bond was about representation in the media. Generally – unless it is a movie with an all black cast (a race themed movie, as they are called in the media regardless of the actual content), or a movie about slavery/apartheid – the only roles people of color get to play are designated black roles: the token black, the ratchet ghetto chick/fresh out of prison gangster, the maid, etc. Very rarely do you get a movie where black people just get to be people. And if the movie does feature regular black people doing regular people things, then it is promoted as a movie for black people aka The Best Man Holiday – a movie about 4 couples that just happen to be black – being called a race-themed movie by The New York Times or The Post or someone.
There is a movie being made right now where Scarlett Johansson will be playing the role of what was originally a Japanese woman…do you think that’s because they couldn’t find a Japanese woman who could act, or because they know that movies with white people make more money? “Exodus: Gods and Kings” was about Egyptians but the cast was all white (very tanned but still Caucasian) because the people who fund movies know that white audiences only go see movies with white people in them. Just look at the uproar caused by a middle-eastern man playing the role of Jesus…
5. “Statues may fall , but history stands. Auschwitz has not been torn down but serves as a reminder and a monument.”
Auschwitz stands, but Auschwitz is not celebrated. I could be wrong, but I doubt that if you walk through downtown Berlin you are going to find a giant statue of Hitler on a pedestal. The architects of Apartheid – the people who were behind Apartheid – are still celebrated in South Africa. Take a walk around Cape Town and all you see is monument after monument of such people behind held up as great leaders, being celebrated, being given places of honor in this “New South Africa”…which still looks a whole lot like the old one.
5. “However I strongly believe that this anger a is misplaced.”
The #RhodesMustFall movement was never about the statue in and of itself. It was about what the statue represents. Some people didn’t understand that, made no effort to actually listen to the people who started the movement, and therefore hijacked it and turned it into something it was not.
6. “If Rhodes caused so much pain and South Africans as a whole want to remove all trace of him, then surely the things that he left as a legacy should also be removed, the Rhodes scholarship and other western/European traits were a result of his rule… infrastructure, technology, clothes and so on.”
I hear this comment a lot whenever colonization is rationalized/defended, and I have to wonder: do you think African’s were just sitting around twiddling their thumbs before white people came? Do you think we knew absolutely nothing? That we weren’t evolving as a people? That we didn’t know our own land? That generations upon generations survived by sheer will of waiting upon their white saviors? That their purpose on earth was to wait on the white man to tell them what to do? I’ll stop there…ok, wait, one more thing..
“Colonization didn’t bring progress to Africa. Colonization interrupted Africa’s progress.” Think on this for a bit…
Also, Rhodes brought us clothes??? lol!
7. “To be honest I have no idea what the New South Africa wants. We constantly hear that whites and Europeans must get out of South Africa and that “Western Imperialism” and interference is not wanted. Yet EVERY day in the UK there are adverts asking for donations…”
Africa doesn’t have a problem with Western Aid. Africa has a problem with Western Aid when there are strings attached. “We will help you but…” Western Aid comes with fine print…Africa must bow down to the West – conform to Western ideologies and principles – in order to receive aid from them, and that’s why Africa doesn’t want (to borrow your own word) “interference” from the West.
8. “In fact (to my knowledge and stand to be corrected), while the xenophobic attacks were taking place recently, Zuma and Mugabe were enjoying a dinner party in Mugabe’s honor, despite his human rights abuses against Zimbabweans (black and white).”
Pretty sure the attacks started after – I could be wrong, maybe I just heard about them late. And yes, Zuma took way too long to speak up on the attacks… and when he did he said some rather dumb things… sorry, I’m getting side-tracked.
I think you should go read up on the purpose of Mugabe’s visit, and the outcomes of that visit.
9. “I am white, I am made to feel ashamed of a history I had no control of and no one is interested in what a white person has to say because what ever they say or do is racist or from a point of white privilege. Yet Africa is happy to take my contribution whether it be a donation, or supporting a feeding scheme or giving free medical services to remote regions, then I am valued.”
You are white. You have White Privilege. No one has asked you to be ashamed on other people’s behalf, only that as a human being you recognize/acknoledge that you have been unfairly privileged. And if nobody is interested in hearing what you have to say because you’re white, why the heck did I just take time to not only read this, but to respond to it as well? *sigh*
Also, you are aware that black people also give donations and support humanitarian organizations, right? Your value should come from being human and being humane, your whiteness should have nothing to do with it. When you give to those who have less that you, your humanity is celebrated and welcomed, not your whiteness.
[…] is a second response to my friend ‘Bob’s anonymous letter, which you can read here. Marlyn Faure is a friend of Alexa who has been wanting me to connect with and meet him, and he […]
[…] friend Tsholo commented on the Bob letter in the comments section, but her comment was so long and specific that i didn’t want it to be […]
Dear Bob
People have been trying to engage with you so politely, and I see their efforts at explaining why you are wrong. Not me. I have a different tactic. I’d like to call a spade a spade. Bob, you are an idiotic, arrogant, ignorant, bigoted, whining racist. I hate coming across people like you, but I am glad you outed yourself, reminding me that there are those like you amongst us, making our work in healing this country a real challenge.
I despise your attitude, your pessimism, your hand wringing criticism of all you find unpalatable and uncivilized, from your comfortable chair of white privilege. I hate your pronouncements that are from the voice of knowing better, without doing a thing to engage, understand, imagine, talk and listen.
You are my worst nightmare. The only thing you get 100% right is that nobody is interested in what you have to say. Why would they be? It is racist, reactionary, punitive, complaining garbage. Please find those like you, and all of you shut up. You are making things very bad for the few whites that are serious about the lives, hopes, dreams and fears of the many among us who have suffered and continue to suffer.
Is your story not also whining? Complaining? Give us something more constructive here. What is your way forward?
I am busy doing stuff. You give something constructive.
[…] So those of you who follow my blog will be aware that i received an email from a friend who wanted to remain anonymous but was wrestling with some questions and issues as a white South African who is currently living overseas but looking in. i published Bob’s email over here. […]
Dear Bob,
Your email, resonates! One of my best friends feel the same. She lives in Johannesburg and is constantly made to feel as someone who had a hand in Apartheid, she is constantly made to feel like she, owes fellow black South Africans. Nevermind that she is in her early 30s!
Our government is exploiting the poor, it is exploiting Apartheid, and through its lack of conscious intelligence it insights violence and anger.
I’ve experienced how people in poorer communities would rather “pull a brother down” than help them and celebrate their achievements! Instead they are made to feel guilty for wanting a better life, for socialising with the white man.
You have to be extremely strong willed in who you are and your believes to step up as a person of color and to NOT allow our sordid history of our country to dictate who you are and your place in this world.
I am so tired of people painting everyone with the same brush! Just the other day, I had a conversation with a young man and he was damned that all people in Grahamstown are racist…Why? Because they are Afrikaans and don’t greet!
People hide behind Apartheid, they use it as an opportunity to NOT do anything for themselves, they use it as an excuse to point fingers at others instead of self reflection!
I am colored, and I am an individual, I have strong views. Where do I belong? Who do I associate with? I am South African, I associate with people I feel comfortable with. People choose to not be prisoners of an oppressed mind.
I’ve been insulted as living in a hole by wealthy colored people, I’ve been snickered at by white people, I’ve seen how funders would rather fund black HIV orphans than colored orphans…I’ve seen oppression in all forms withing the same communities, cultures and race.
My response probably doesn’t answer your question, since I share in your concerns for the double standards practiced in our country “give us money, give us free education, give us housing, and do as we tell you to do OR else the Shit is literally going to hit this land”.
[…] writing this as a follow-up to ‘Bob’s’ letter that Brett shared. I don’t want to do a point-for-point response as others have already done, so […]
[…] like Tsholo and Dre, was someone else who shared some thoughts in the comments section of the ‘What about Bob?’ conversation and i didn’t want her words to be missed so i asked her to expand it into a […]
[…] i shared his email under the guise of ‘Bob’ and invited a few of my friends to respond, all of which you can catch up with over here [worth a read!]. Bob has taken it all in and had some time to think about it and compose some […]
[…] [To read the original email and any of the responses, click here] […]
[…] of it has been addressed quite effectively in this nine part series of letters and response, titled ‘What About Bob?’ that i ran on my blog not too long ago. If you missed that, i would seriously put aside some time […]
[…] which is so much stronger than my fear, is that there are people like Bob [who a bunch of us had this long and helpful conversation with a while back] who genuinely are wanting to understand and be involved in the conversation and […]
[…] one of those exchanges below because of where it started and where it ended up. [flashbacks to the ‘What about Bob?’ series of conversations i ran a while back]. Some was just painful and demonstrated an all too […]
[…] South Africa, but also to Americaland and the world at large. Some of those conversations like the What About Bob series, were at times messy and uncomfortable and shouty, but i have seen people change and know […]
[…] have gotten up to in life; a year that involved some really tricky/challenging/frustrating/hopeful conversations about Race and Privilege and Reconciliation and Restitution like this one a number of us had with a real friend of mine with the made up name of Bob; oh and […]
[…] who wrote a typical white person asking all the typical white person questions a few months ago [whose story you may have followed under the pseudonym of Bob] is now sending me articles and videos [and i can’t keep up, but it’s so great] because […]