My friend Tsholo commented on the Bob letter in the comments section, but her comment was so long and specific that i didn’t want it to be missed and so i asked her if it would be alright if i ran it as another post in this series and she said yes:
[Meet Tsholo: I am a 31 year old black female – lover of music and all things pink. Born and raised in the Free State (mostly) and now a permanent resident of Cape Town. My wish for Africa: Renaissance (that Africa would re-member itself and love itself), Unity (that we would embrace our diversity and learn to love each other), and Healing (that as we come together all of us as a people would heal from past scars, and from our current struggles)].
Feel free to not let this one go through…but I did really try to be civil and play nice…
1. “I am a white South African and I feel I have no place in the country I grew up in and love.”
The Freedom Charter clearly states that “South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white…” so maybe instead of waiting for people to make you feel welcomed/wanted in SA, you should just live in the knowledge that this is your home and no one has the right to say otherwise. If you love this country, stay and help build it.
2. “The leaders only seem to be interested in making sure they are comfortable and wealthy, while most of the people of South Africa struggle to eke out a living. Crime is high, service delivery is worse than disgusting and parliament has become a global joke…one our own president seems to have a good laugh at. However despite this all and after 20+ years its the fault of apartheid, the Dutch and the English. Let’s be honest it will take a great deal of time for South Africa to come right and for a while we were on a decent track, now we are in reverse. ”
Apartheid laws may have ended, but the effects…the legacy of Apartheid is still very much alive today. As you say yourself, “it will take a great deal of time for South Africa to come right”. I agree with you most of the politicians in power are there for their own benefit and not to serve their people. I’m gonna have to disagree, though, that “for a while we were on a decent track, now we are in reverse.” I don’t think we are moving in reverse at all. Things are still changing. We are moving forward. We might not like Zuma and the incumbent government – there’s so very many things I don’t agree with them on, and I do criticize them on those points – but I still acknowledge the good that they do. Sometimes those changes don’t directly affect me, but I see the good happening for others, and I acknowledge it.
3. “Well as a business owner in Cape Town my so called white privilege was non existent. I wasn’t part of the Jewish community and so wasn’t able to find clients there. I wasn’t black and so larger companies who use freelancers were hesitant to use me because they didn’t want to loose their BEE status. Likewise as a non Muslim my business practices and ethics clashed with their beliefs and so they wouldn’t work with me. But I blame no one and angry at no one for this, its the way of the world and its up to me to do something about it and make sure that I succeed and provide for my family.”
I don’t think you understand White Privilege as well as you think you do…maybe read up on what it actually means a bit more…
4. “Recently there was a discussion I came across along the lines of “It’s time James Bond was Black”. Would there be just as big of a discussion around the question of “It’s time Shaft was played by a white actor”.
The point of the discussion around a black James Bond was about representation in the media. Generally – unless it is a movie with an all black cast (a race themed movie, as they are called in the media regardless of the actual content), or a movie about slavery/apartheid – the only roles people of color get to play are designated black roles: the token black, the ratchet ghetto chick/fresh out of prison gangster, the maid, etc. Very rarely do you get a movie where black people just get to be people. And if the movie does feature regular black people doing regular people things, then it is promoted as a movie for black people aka The Best Man Holiday – a movie about 4 couples that just happen to be black – being called a race-themed movie by The New York Times or The Post or someone.
There is a movie being made right now where Scarlett Johansson will be playing the role of what was originally a Japanese woman…do you think that’s because they couldn’t find a Japanese woman who could act, or because they know that movies with white people make more money? “Exodus: Gods and Kings” was about Egyptians but the cast was all white (very tanned but still Caucasian) because the people who fund movies know that white audiences only go see movies with white people in them. Just look at the uproar caused by a middle-eastern man playing the role of Jesus…
5. “Statues may fall , but history stands. Auschwitz has not been torn down but serves as a reminder and a monument.”
Auschwitz stands, but Auschwitz is not celebrated. I could be wrong, but I doubt that if you walk through downtown Berlin you are going to find a giant statue of Hitler on a pedestal. The architects of Apartheid – the people who were behind Apartheid – are still celebrated in South Africa. Take a walk around Cape Town and all you see is monument after monument of such people behind held up as great leaders, being celebrated, being given places of honor in this “New South Africa”…which still looks a whole lot like the old one.
6. “However I strongly believe that this anger a is misplaced.”
The #RhodesMustFall movement was never about the statue in and of itself. It was about what the statue represents. Some people didn’t understand that, made no effort to actually listen to the people who started the movement, and therefore hijacked it and turned it into something it was not.
7. “If Rhodes caused so much pain and South Africans as a whole want to remove all trace of him, then surely the things that he left as a legacy should also be removed, the Rhodes scholarship and other western/European traits were a result of his rule… infrastructure, technology, clothes and so on.”
I hear this comment a lot whenever colonization is rationalized/defended, and I have to wonder: do you think African’s were just sitting around twiddling their thumbs before white people came? Do you think we knew absolutely nothing? That we weren’t evolving as a people? That we didn’t know our own land? That generations upon generations survived by sheer will of waiting upon their white saviors? That their purpose on earth was to wait on the white man to tell them what to do? I’ll stop there…ok, wait, one more thing..
“Colonization didn’t bring progress to Africa. Colonization interrupted Africa’s progress.” Think on this for a bit…
Also, Rhodes brought us clothes??? lol!
8. “To be honest I have no idea what the New South Africa wants. We constantly hear that whites and Europeans must get out of South Africa and that “Western Imperialism” and interference is not wanted. Yet EVERY day in the UK there are adverts asking for donations…”
Africa doesn’t have a problem with Western Aid. Africa has a problem with Western Aid when there are strings attached. “We will help you but…” Western Aid comes with fine print…Africa must bow down to the West – conform to Western ideologies and principles – in order to receive aid from them, and that’s why Africa doesn’t want (to borrow your own word) “interference” from the West.
9. “In fact (to my knowledge and stand to be corrected), while the xenophobic attacks were taking place recently, Zuma and Mugabe were enjoying a dinner party in Mugabe’s honor, despite his human rights abuses against Zimbabweans (black and white).”
Pretty sure the attacks started after – I could be wrong, maybe I just heard about them late. And yes, Zuma took way too long to speak up on the attacks… and when he did he said some rather dumb things… sorry, I’m getting side-tracked.
I think you should go read up on the purpose of Mugabe’s visit, and the outcomes of that visit.
10. “I am white, I am made to feel ashamed of a history I had no control of and no one is interested in what a white person has to say because what ever they say or do is racist or from a point of white privilege. Yet Africa is happy to take my contribution whether it be a donation, or supporting a feeding scheme or giving free medical services to remote regions, then I am valued.”
You are white. You have White Privilege. No one has asked you to be ashamed on other people’s behalf, only that as a human being you recognize/acknoledge that you have been unfairly privileged. And if nobody is interested in hearing what you have to say because you’re white, why the heck did I just take time to not only read this, but to respond to it as well? *sigh*
Also, you are aware that black people also give donations and support humanitarian organizations, right? Your value should come from being human and being humane, your whiteness should have nothing to do with it. When you give to those who have less that you, your humanity is celebrated and welcomed, not your whiteness.
[To return to Bob’s original email and see a diversity of responses, click here]
[…] Tsholo [black woman] responds […]
Very well-written, metered response, thanks Tsholo. #7 made me LOL – for real.
Excellent post, however have you thought that Affirmative Action breeds mediocrity? Want proof? Just look at the “transformed” civil service and schools of the New (improved) South Africa.
See, it works like this…you first go to a mediocre AA school with AA teachers who entered a mediocre AA university on a AA quota basis and qualified with a mediocre AA teaching degree that allows them to teach a mediocre AA curriculum drawn up by mediocre AA appointees.
There they will teach you all sorts of mediocre AA bullshit like how to spell the name of the mediocre continent you live on in a mediocre way for a mediocre AA cricket tournament based on mediocre AA quota players.
And what do you do with a useless mediocre AA degree from a mediocre AA bush college like Nelson Mandela Metropolitan University?
Well you go into “Pubiic Relations” and apply your newly earned mediocre Affirmative Action talents and create mediocre AA T-shirts for a bike ride promising “FreeDOOM” for other mediocre talented South Africans courtesy of mediocre president Nelson Mandela himself.
If they ask you about your obvious lack of real talent you simply make it off as…the spelling mistake was “a bit of a PR hiccup” …that way you can use the abbreviation of PR instead of having to spell it out.
You assume a lot too much in that comment i think. Do you know who was responsible for the Arfica debacle? And you kinda shot yourself in the leg there when you wrote ‘public’ as ‘pubiic’ – those kinds of relations, i don’t think we need skilled workers for. i think if Affirmative Action is applied in the way it was intended then the idea is for a person of colour of equal skill to be given preference where before a job would have been given to a white person, so that more balance and representation can happen, not someone who is unskilled or pushed through although i am sure that has happened in places. But a necessary ‘evil’ from where the country was to help move it to where it needed to be although clearly not favourable if you are on the side of those who were previously being favoured.
Interesting view point. How do we know if they are equal though? Or do we just assume? If white privilege exists, then we can assume the white person is more educated? Or is this a paradox?
I’m not sure i understand your question. In South Africa where the white person has ended up better educated it was largely as a result of an apartheid education system designed with that result in mind. Which is one of the things needing to be addressed. But beyond just education you have to look at life circumstance – a young black student who studies in the township by candlelight and likely has to look after his siblings while his mom is away looking after a white family’s children does not have the same opportunity to succeed as a white student who has all the latest books and gadgets and a room to themself etc…
The white person was educated better – agreed. What I am saying is that if two people of equal qualifications applies for a job, most employees will think the white person is more educated because of apartheid white privilege. On paper it will look the same, but in their mind, the white applicant is more educated. This is the paradox I am talking about. It is white privilege, but by acknowledging it, we are led to believe that the white applicant is somehow more educated.
I personally would rather hire a black person who has overcome all the hardships and still obtained a qualification than a white person who has had it easy. It shows more drive and toughness to be able to still make it in spite of the circumstances.
Regarding point 7 above, I do not understand why the European culture is so embraced? Why mention it at all? One one hand black people covet the modern ways, yet seem to hold onto the old ways. I do not understand. I agree, Africa was progressing albeit at a snail’s pace. All cultures have been like this at some stage or another. Europeans learn’t from the Middle East, China for example. Nobody mentions the past in such a way by saying “you interrupted us”. It doesn’t make sense.
How about you write 10 points on going forward. What should we do? You’re stating things we’ve all been over already. Boring. Give us solutions now.
Already done. Maybe you should take more time listening [and in this case looking] before pronouncing judgement because that shows greater intention to actually learn and be part of the solution: https://brettfish.wordpress.com/2014/11/01/race-in-south-africa-moving-towards-a-truly-rainbow-nation
“that you have been unfairly privileged”
How can we say what is fair or not? God decides. Some are born disabled. Some are born with much worse conditions yet they choose to make it. I know it is unfair and we can always say that, but sometimes its just the way it is. One must try to make the best of it. If one is born unintelligent, then it is unfair. How do they make it in the world? If one is born a supermodel, then they make millions – it is unfair. If one is born a top athlete or a soccer player, they can become a billionaire. It is all unfair, but its just the way it is. Some are born more energetic, some more lazy, some more resourceful.
Are you saying we must all have the same no matter what we do? A fixed R10000 per month for example no matter what? We can agree that there must be equal opportunity, but that is only in theory. One who cannot pass entrance exams will not have this opportunity. Are you saying we need communism or a variant of this?
Please I am genuinely trying to find the way forward here. Please engage me.
In many cases, blacks are born with advantages. Black men are known to be better sprinters, better athletes in many sports. They are known to have large manhoods. These are all advantages in many cases. One cannot deny this. How would we make this more equal? Do we force black athletes to wear weight-belts when competing? Do we force the 100m lineup to have 50 percent blacks only when in most cases its all blacks in the lineup. Regarding the latter, do we force black men to have an operation? Do we ban them from seeing women, or limit it? Do you understand here?
So for a skinny white man making 10 million a year due to being very smart, do we force him to give half his money to the black guy? What does he get from the black guy?
All people have advantages in some way or disadvantages. How do we equalize it? Please help me here. I’m asking difficult questions but they are valid.
i think that is a completely different thing – we are talking about the conditions people are born into and so a black man who is athletic and is born into a middle class family has a complete advantage over a black man who is born athletic into a township because the opportunities presented are likely to be different. At the moment the differences exist largely between black and white because of the work of apartheid but in time it will switch across to a more socio-economic disparity but given our history that is going to take a long time and so at the moment the question continues to be black and white.
Justin, it will never be completely equal for sure. But at the moment the starting playing field is so completely ridiculously not close to being equal [drive to the airport in Cape Town and look right] that something needs to be done so that at least we start from vaguely similar place. What happens after that is up to everyone involved but the disparity at the moment needs to be addressed. The gap between the haves and the have nots is ludicrous.
Here is my list of ten ways to help the country: Please post it.
1. By all means have kids even if you are poor, but limit to two. Or only be eligible for grants for two. Perhaps incentive to be sterilized after two kids?
2. Everyone should be allowed land. If there are large open areas, then people should be allowed to live there.
3. Nobody should be allowed to own more than one property. No holiday houses and no rentals allowed.
4. Acknowledge that apartheid was bad, but also realize that it may have been the result of other things. It was not just done by evil whites. People had complicated reasons. It was as a result of many many many things. White leaders were balancing schooling, defense, agriculture, cultural differences. It was not easy and maybe this is the only way they could think of? Perhaps.
5. Government size must be vastly reduced. Limit salary to R200 000 per year in government. This would free up money for the poor.
6. Education must be free even up until varsity. Make the lecture halls bigger, make it tele-education, I don’t care – it must be free. No negotiations. It will pay for itself within 5 years.
7. No AA, BEE or any of that. Once the above are done, it wont be necessary at all. It already is at that point in a way.
8. Increase the size of the police force and make prison a labor camp. People must work in jail.
9. Nobody is allowed to sit around doing nothing. Compulsory work for all. Basic needs are met by grants, but people must work and do something no matter how small. If you refuse to work, then its an offence. For example if you get R1000 in food, shelter from the government each month, then if you still refuse to work, its jail. Two hours per day is the minimum.
10. A cap on the rich. Nobody should have more than R100 million.
Justin, firstly, I commend you for your bravery and for so fearlessly writing what you think and believe. Having read Tsholo’s well-crafted piece, I was intrigued to read comments that followed.
Like you, I agree that some parts of the conversation thread are topics that go round and round and could consume hours of dialogue. As Brett often advocates for, this is a conversation that works best around a table, probably because some good food and wine may temper our emotions, and help us listen well, cos we have to sip or chew. But since I do not know you, and so cannot invite you for dinner, below, a couple of things that jumped out at me from your conversation so far.
1. “you first go to a mediocre AA school with AA teachers”
Starting your argument here is weak, because you are talking about something that does not exist. In SA, education is a commodity – the more money you have, the more expensive an education you can purchase. Mediocre teachers end up in poor schools, not because of affirmative action, and so, as a result, if you are poor, you get a poor education.
2. “If white privilege exists, then we can assume the white person is more educated?”
White privilege does exist. And yes, most white people in SA are more educated than the other candidate applying for same job. So, no, they are not equal, not in terms of their education. And, furthermore, if we look at Education Capital (the sum total of everything you learn in and out of academic institutions) then people with wealth always out-compete their poorer neighbours. We learn through exposure, so imagine a kid who has not been to a theatre, or gone to the movies and ordered popcorn – can you remember when these things applied to you? But I digress! You rightly point out later that a candidate should be judged on more than just their academic qualification. And when doing this, we need to consider all the complexities of growing up in poor communities if we want to weigh up people’s abilities more equitably.
3. “If one is born unintelligent, then it is unfair.” “If one is born a top athlete”
Perhaps you should pick up a copy of Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell and then we can chat some more. Yes, we are born with genetic propensities for certain things, but we are ALL born unintelligent! And ask any top athlete if they felt they were born that way, or whether they sacrificed and continued to practice kicking footballs at goal posts in the rain while their friends went home for dinner. I joined a local swimming club when I was 8 and was always selected as a reserve because I consistently came 5th. My discipline and hard work paid off a few seasons later when I surprised everyone and won the 100m freestyle from lane 7. When Chad Le Clos won gold, I cried bitter sweet tears, tears of joy for my beloved South Africa, and tears of pain for the Olympic swimmer I could never become because I grew up in a time of Apartheid, on the wrong side of a railway track.
I won’t comment on your list because I think you need many more dinner parties to discuss and debate. I don’t even have a list, because I recognize the complexities of these issues. And meanwhile, I DO.
Ah Heidi, you rock. Thankx for taking the time!
https://couragecouer.wordpress.com/2015/04/20/my-thoughts-on-phobias-amd-the-genocide-taking-place-in-south-africa/
My story as a Nigerian in your country. Please post it.
[…] invited some of my friends to respond and so far Alexa [white woman], Marlyn [coloured guy] and Tsholo [black woman] have shared some of their thoughts as well as a number of other people in the comment sections of […]
I really love this well-written response, particularly point no. 1, which I think addresses the main impetus behind posts like Bob’s – a feeling of victimhood, of being ‘left out’: “maybe instead of waiting for people to make you feel welcomed/wanted in SA, you should just live in the knowledge that this is your home and no one has the right to say otherwise. If you love this country, stay and help build it.”
I totally agree with Tsholo that when our kneejerk reaction to being told uncomfortable truths about race and privilege is defensiveness and self-pity, we miss out on an opportunity to really engage with our fellow South Africans, to acknowledge their pain and our shared, difficult history, and to make our country better.
I don’t know about everyone else but I’m pretty sick of the ‘yes, but what about me?’ and ‘reverse racism’ crowd who try to derail every conversation about race as if it’s about their lily-white privileged asses. (‘Scuse the French, Brett 😉 As Tsholo rightly points out, there are some basic racist assumptions underlying Bob’s post (e.g. black people = backward, colonialism = progress), and I think it’s important that we call those assumptions out when we see them. Racism, like most ideologies, often disguises itself.
I also wonder how far we should actually entertain responses like Bob’s, which, in their conservatism and narrowness and frequent ignorance, may be less than counter-productive. Do we actually convince the Bobs of this world anything by talking nicely but firmly with them as Tsholo has done? Or should we cut out what a (black) friend of mine pithily calls ‘blacksplaining’ and rather care about petitioning those in power and focusing on empowerment? I don’t have the answers – just asking the questions.
Thanks B and Tsho… xxx
Some great points, Dre, thankx. And can French on my blog any time…
Merci beaucoup! Catching up with all your prolific posts – great as usual 🙂
There is some good conversation happening. We are also about to have our second live deep meal conversation which is really rad and we are going to have race/boundary-related conversation at that one – will see if there is a story to share afterwards but needs to move offline and then on to action as well… also some exciting potential work stuff with Megan who has been commenting here involving workshops and race which i am super looking forward to…
Now I wish I was in CT! That sounds amazing and hard and brave all at the same time.
Very exciting potential ahead. Can’t wait to get started.
[…] I don’t want to do a point-for-point response as others have already done, so thoroughly. As Tsholo, particularly, has eloquently pointed out, some of Bob’s ideas about progress and colonialism are […]
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