My good friend, Linda Martindale introduced me to a friend of hers, Nkosivumile Gola at the TRC Re-Enactment meetings we both went to a week or so ago in Stellenbosch. When i heard that Nkosi had a blog i immediately asked him if he would consider writing a piece for mine.
Not to give him an easy ride, i posed this topic to him – the fact that for white people who do want to make a difference in South Africa [and there are many who are generally seeking to ‘get it right’] the task can often seem so overwhelming. And so yes we need to look at restitution and reparation and especially in terms of land and economy disparity, but where do we start? Are there some first steps towards helping becoming part of a truly new and more equally balanced South Africa?
Meet my new friend, Nkosivumile Gola, and this is his response:
Baby steps towards a really new South Afrika
This is the most difficult question for me as it is also very important. The difficulty in this question arises from the fact that there are many acts which the white people have done yet the condition of the black people remains the same. Also my fear and difficulty of this question arises from the fact that justice in South Afrika has been limited into a voluntary act which is totally a divorced and disbanded idea when reflecting it to the actual history of South Afrika. According to our history during the apartheid days whites were beneficiaries not because they supported apartheid or not but because they were white but today justice is thought to be voluntary act meaning those who want to live just may do and those who don’t feel like don’t have to, that is a problem and will not solve the problem. This voluntary justice triggers a situation where elitation amongst black people occurs, a situation where a certain number of people are turned into elites amongst many that are brutalised by the system. This voluntary justice causes a situation whereby the black people have no choice but to live through the white people’s shame, guilt and mercy. Now all the shame, guilt and mercy of the white people will never equal the cry and brutalisation of the black people. The emotional state of the white people will never bring about the change required in South Afrika where we can then begin to talk about equal opportunities. Justice should not be a voluntary act but it is something that should be done both by those willing and those who are not willing, justice should be done on the bases that it is right not because it works (in our eyes) or not, not because it pleases, tickles and or even bruising. Now my aim here is to try and avoid the re-occurrence of what has happened before.
Build relationships
Now coming on what is it that the whites should do to (catalyse) the process of reconciliation in our country. I think it is of high importance that whites build these relationships with the black people and they must understand that by building these relationships with “particular” black people they are not doing anything to the overall pain of the black people. The black people are united by the wound which means we can only define them in plural form now there is no way that we can define them in a singular form. This means that when we dealing with the pain of the black people there is no black person as an individual but a black person as a unit. Though the black people are made up of individuals but singling them out of the unifying wound is a crime. Having white friends myself but my heart is rooted to the overall wounded black person. My heart remains loyal to that wound, I will remain nursing the black wound and if our friendship leads us into forgetting of this wound then it is of no help and we better understand there is no friendship in that. I love Biko’s definition of black; ”blacks are those who are by law or tradition politically, economically and socially discriminated against as a group in the South African society and identifying themselves as a unit in the struggle towards the realization of their aspirations”.
These relationships should be based on conversations about the past the present and the visions about the future. Conversation is a crucial part of the solution but only if it does not lead to liberalism (ignorance), meaning now these relationships should be the means to sharpen the black radical activism. I am aware of many white friendships that have led to radical black ignorance and I think this is one of the greatest injustices. Now conversations about the past are crucial as they are the ones that will inform why the present is in this fashion and they will bring about the possible solutions of the future. These conversations should be based on how does the continued white injustice in South Afrika play part in the present suffering of the black person and in that also informing that talking about white injustice is not the incitation of violence but a way to eradicate violence. Intentional Prayers also should be the crucial and the foundational part of these conversations. I then believe that these kind of relationships are healthy relationships as they are intentional about a better South Afrika.
Activism amongst fellow whites
Amongst many whites themselves I don’t think there is a necessary voice to instigate the bringing about of the required change in South Afrika. I think 1994 have closed the door of the white people by reconciling the white people with the stolen and blood privilege. I think they need a revival of their conscience and there is no one who can do that better well than their own people. I don’t understand white people at times as they would be more concerned about rhino poaching, global warming and panda bear whatever yet they are so quite about the animalisation and thingification of the black people and we truly need a voice against that. White people needs resurrection of their conscience so that what they have seen as normal for years they would now see it as abnormal and inhuman and I think this white voice will be of great help against such. I have seen many pols and petitions that spoke about the release of Eugene Decock and many on global warming and so on yet I have never seen any petition not even one that talks of the black pain of dispossession in South Afrika. I don’t think the release of Eugen Decock will return the land of the black people ultimately the dignity of the black people. This makes me to question myself is this rhino poaching more important than the black child who sleeps without anything on their belly almost daily?, is this global warming more important than the low life expectancy of the black people? Will the release of Eugen Decock heal this black wound and play a role on reparations?
Social justice should be the main conversation in your circles
According to the Bantu tribes or should I say the Afrikan tribes power is responsibility and not comfort, I believe if we can all adopt into that then we can have a better South Afrika. In the olden days it is said that it was the community that raised a child meaning everyone was responsible for everyone else and he who have had a responsibility to the one who have not. Then it was impossible to even separate the one who have from the one who have not, that sounds familiar!!!! The book of Acts 2:44 tells us that “believers had all things in common” and further shows us this when the writer (Luke) exclaims to us that “there was no one lacking amongst them” (Acts 4:34). I do believe then that the God Immanuel, the God who is with us He is socially interested in both those who have and those who have not and it is the duty of he who have to be sensitive to the prompts of Immanuel so that we can all say in our church today there is no one lacking amongst us. I once listened to a preacher who was doing apologetics on a subject about poverty he said; “the church has enough today that there would be no one lacking amongst them” it was an AMEN for me there! It can only be the greed of some that causes some to be living under the swamps of poverty. Now because of to Jesus social justice is one of His main agendas as found in both the Lord’s Prayer and also in the book of Matthew 25:36-46 then I believe it should be one of our main agendas too, so whenever and wherever we are sitting lets discuss social justice.
Stop voting for and supporting DA!
I am aware that your vote is your choice yet if your choice furthers the black pain then look carefully into your choice again. DA is a white instrument to keep the status quo in South Afrika so that the situation of the blacks (not pigmentation but keeping in mind Biko’s definition) remains unchanging. If the DA was truly after the emancipation of the South Afrikan poor then they would have policies that are pro poor. The required change in South Afrika today will not come from people who wants to maintain the white status yet not overlooking the black pain because it is the very maintenance of the white status that is the actual black pain and that’s what DA does it maintains the white status. At this juncture we don’t need people who will say we want to solve the problem “but” because it is that very “but” that stretches the black wound and the DA is the actual embodiment of that “but”. Also at this moment in time we don’t need pro white organisations and their support in South Afrika as each and every structure thereof in this country is actually pro white. Therefore supporting DA in South Afrika is actually the instigation of the black wound. As for who to vote I will leave that to you, but the policies must be interested in what you claim to be after. The policies of the party that you are voting for must surely be pro poor.
Change your way of life
Without fully identifying with the black pain there will never be a pure, genuine and battling prayers that are projected to the black wound. There are many people who claim to be pro poor yet their lives proves to be divorced from the poor. Thomas Sankara (the president of Burkina Faso 1983-1987) when justifying his act of having no air conditioner in his office, driving the lowest costing car, attending his meetings in bicycles, cutting a huge portion of his salary and using public services like each and every one in his country he says “we cannot live luxurious lives yet we are leading the poor”. I think being pro poor then should be beyond the claims and be the very lives. Therefore living in Bishop Scot and claiming to be pro poor is one of the greatest lies. I think it is in these lies that leads to ignorance such that there are many people who says they are doing something in fixing the South Afrikan problem yet all they do is to rub off their own guilt. I think it is much easier to rub off your guilt by these cheap acts which includes soup (the soup kitchen justice) than it is to allow ones very life to be wasted for justice. Lives being wasted is Christ being lived because love is only expressed when life is being lay down for the next person. Therefore anyone missing out on this laying down of life that very person is missing out on the greatest commandment (Mat 22:38) and that should be the greatest sin.
Give fair wage to your domestic helpers!!! Do not be limited by the standards of this anti poor government but be pumped by the pro poor Christ in considering the wage for your domestic helper. When you considering the payment of your domestic helpers think of yourself first (love your neighbor as you love yourself); would you be able to live out of what you decide to give your helper? If not then why are you even considering giving it to someone else? More especially someone who could be a single parent with at-least five children. It is pretty sad that many white people don’t even know the families of their helpers, they are not even interested in the life of their employees (helpers) outside of work, this is cruel as it proves a perception of what was once said and believed “the blacks are as good as singing, dancing and digging”. You should play part in the education of the children of your domestic helpers, find out how you can help them. Be it if the help is morally, financially, emotionally or even psychologically but your help might go a long way. I do believe that you can also contribute a great deal in the local schools and help the up-coming generation to see you as humans and not as superiors and future employers as it was previously forcefully and violently suggested and currently is inherited by the younger generation. This will help a great deal and you will be seen as a fellow human being and it will also help you when you walking around Khayelitsha, there won’t be chants that are following you saying Umlungu, umlungu (white person) repeatedly.
[For an excellent response to this same question by Sindile Vabaza, click here]
[For other conversations and engagements concerning Race, click here]
Very interesting topic, Gola is so passionate about the life of a black man. Wheneva he opens his mouth about the history of a black man whose things were stolen from him by Amadlagusha something in me from deep down within moves.
Thanks for stopping by Thabo. It is great to have his voice echoing from my blog.
Thabo I thankyou mnganam! And thankyou Brett for creating this space so that we may engage.
I realised while reading this that I’ve only ever thought of the problem as being an economic one. That got me thinking, “what are we actually aiming for here?” I suppose the goal is that there shouldn’t be a significant difference between races when it comes to things like wealth, education, health, etc.
I really like what you said about helping domestic helpers’ children through school. To me, without proper education and healthcare for everyone, this racial divide will never go away. Even if uneducated people (regardless of colour) receive money, it won’t turn into meaningful, lasting wealth that provides a platform for the next generation. A more even distribution of wealth is required but it can’t be the only step.
I also liked what you said about wealthy people needing to do more than soup kitchens. That it needs to be sacrificial and intentional.
There were a few things you said that I don’t like or agree with though.
I don’t really understand why you pick on the DA. The DA was always an anti-apartheid party. What makes you say they are pro-white? In the very next paragraph you mention Thomas Sankara’s sacrificial living and yet you don’t mention Jacob Zuma’s excess and complete disregard for the poor. Surely one would want a government free from corruption, from jobs for buddies and from self-enriching? Consistently the Auditor General points to the Western Cape as having the cleanest audits. Surely that’s a step in the right direction for the country? They aren’t perfect and one would always hope for better parties to choose from, but surely they would be an improvement? (Perhaps other parties would be too but it’s only the DA you’ve picked on)
You also sort of mentioned the idea of involuntary justice, in contrast to white people deciding to do something about justice. Apart from existing things like taxing richer people more and poor people nothing, how do you suggest that can happen in a way that brings reconciliation rather than causing new hurts and divides.
Primarily I would love to express my great gratitude’s to Brettfish and Nkosivumile Gola for creating such a platform were we can soberly minded engage in matters which will be of great benefit to the social state in our beloved Nation to all Citizen. As Thabo Mithi already stated above that Mr Gola is a man who is very passionate about justice, and as we all know that true justice embrace all of life not just some and leave others out; being a friend to Nkosivumile for some time I know him as the man who love all race, who desire to see that we are all living in true harmony; I want to emphasis on that, that he is not a man whose justice is influence by prejudice. I know many have assumed him to be the man who fuels anger and who desire to create the enmity between the races in this country, I hope as we read and engage in this beautiful platform we can bear that in mind. MikeT my dear brother I am so moved by your sincerity and honesty in expressing yourself, starting on the notion of the DA as the party which seems to be picked while we have many parties in South Africa; it’s a fair question really which many of us will love to know why Nkosivumile is saying that. I will share from my personally view and observation, I believe the 2 most influential parties in South Africa is DA and ANC; DA having the most followers who are the one who still possesses the wealth of this country, and ANC having the elite who have political power per se. ANC though they have that power nevertheless it is very limited and restricted by those who still own the big chunk of the wealth of this Nation; that simple means that the DA has most power with its followers. The point in that is, the white community has power and can be of great influence in challenging the status quo of this Nation, but I believe mostly are not willing to do that; they just enjoy the privileges and the illusion of the Post-Apartheid society, while the masses of the people suffer due to the silence of the privileged, I so believe Nkosivumile is challenging that mindset which many exhibit. You mention of taxes which of the many whites fellow citizen are subject into while blacks are free, thank you for bringing that up; the tax issue is the very complex one in our Nation, I once more believe that most of the things in South Africa clearly exposes how frail is our administration. There is no cooperation in this Nation, even though we call it a democratic Nation, I am not educated on how our legislation works on trying to correct the brutality of the old regime Apartheid; however it is clear that it is not fit to correct and change things. I want you to bear in my that most of the ANC leaders are the victims of the apartheid regime, it has in many ways reduce their capacity to engage on matters of life in proper and sober minded; I for one I am not surprise by the misconduct of the ANC, excuse my language what most of you were expecting from the Kaffirs who have been designed by the brutal system of apartheid. I think it is very arrogant and selfish once more for the white community to point fingers and critic these leaders merely on their flaws, I am not advocating or supporting their misconduct; but I just want to bring to your logic something on a different perspective. As many times blacks administration is being condemn and criticized, I hope you may see it in a different view that the apartheid designs those lazy, corrupt, inadequate etc as many may describe the blacks. ANC has no capability at all to create a working society which many knows as democracy, whites have been and are still responsible for that; ANC and DA are no different, then I agree with Nkosivumile that the DA is a danger in the construction of a new South Africa, they are merely for the idea of creating the middle class knowing that, their success in that will create the enmity between the blacks. I hope the white community may take responsibility and being forward in campaigning for justice in this Nation, not being laid back and play victims in this whole scenario, that’s our call to you white fellow South Africans. And that remind me about the event I attended on Stellenbosch on Revisiting the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, as those guys were doing what they were doing which I still want to know what was happen there, a thought came to mind as the black Church was given the responsibility to facilitate that crucial task; who debrief them so that they can proper do that task in the benefit for all not for some. I will conclude by saying victims are prone to victimize, ANC with all their projects which they run or will intend to run; will always victimize the masses of the blacks. My question to the white community will you remain silent as victims of taxes, bee etc or will you engage in advancing the true revolution which will add value and dignity to all; by the way those taxes add no value in the lives of the poor and the marginalize black South Africa but the middle class is enjoying them.
Wow, that is a lot to think about. Thank you so much for stopping by and sharing your thoughts. This is such a small start but just creating a space where we can have dialogue and hear from all sides of the table and learn from other peoples’ perspectives feels really helpful. Appreciate all the time you put into replying.
The DA is a party that has dedicated a lot of its time and its efforts to putting the black community down. You will do good to remember that only a few years ago, when the DA gained control of the Western Cape, people were built for toilets that had no shelters, there was just a tub there on the street. This was never seen before in this country and the DA leader Helen Zille said it was what we asked of her. The basic human right to some dignity was violated and to this day that has not changed and the DA is still in power in the Western Cape.
I do not believe that the DA has the interests of the people of this nation, black people to be very specific, at heart. All this political party has done is to put black people down. This is proven yet again by the implementation of the portable toilet system. It’s bad enough that we have to relieve ourselves in these, let me put it this way, bottles. There are also people who pick these toilets up everyday, maybe to some that is job creation, to me it is undignified. This particular party has nothing to offer us, it serves the needs of its own people. It is not the solution we need.
I am not saying this MikeT because I’m after you or singling you out, I am saying it only because the DA is not, absolutely NOT, as anti-apartheid as you might think. The improvement you speak will never come upon us through the DA. As for Zuma, my brother here just pointed out that “elitation amongst black people occurs, a situation where a certain number of people are turned into elites amongst many that are brutalised by the system”. He is what was created so that the status quo may remain, he is now completely ignorant to what the black pain is. He is no longer black except for the colour of his skin. He and those like him are in power because of a sense of gratitude (blame Dr Nelson R Mandela) that black people have towards the ANC.
Pause!
Ah, thank you Seleb. i think one thing that is hard for us all to negotiate is the media and their affect on the stories – i imagine we even all look to different places – if it is online then iafrica.com [which i usually frequent] gives a very different story from news24 [if anyone has an idea on which is more accurate i am happy to change] and when it comes to tv or other places we all hear different stories which have maybe all been adapted or biased in some way depending on the listenership so even receiving the truthful story from which to base judgement off is a tricky one, which is why interpersonal relationships are possibly a much better way to go as we can start to hear stories from people who have lived them and actually been there firsthand.
i love how you finish with ‘Pause!’ as in breathe as in take a moment to reflect on that because that is what is needed. a lot of time of just meeting and getting to know each other and sharing stories and experiences before we jump in trying to “fix” anything – that way when we start to walk the same road together we can see what we are encountering together and hopefully move in some good direction also together.
Keep it coming.
Mike T, Thankyou so much man, I trully appreciate it. Sir Mike T DA has always been an anti apartheid party apparently even FF plus has ever been an anti apartheid party. What makes me to think DA is pro white? Firstly let me say to you that DA is not an opposition but it is a way to keep things as they are. DA and ANC are the same parties with different faces. The problem of South Afrika has never been corruption if it was we wouldn’t have left it out during the apartheid years. Corruption is not new, the apartheid governement was as corrupt as the ANC government. DA acts as if the problem in SA is “corruption” and its not ignorance but it is a technique and a stratergy that serves as the security of the white pocket which is because of the blood of the black people. The ANC government is operating our country out of compromises that were made during the CODESA settlements and the DA to continue pushing for those compromises they show their none interest in dealing with the problem of South Afrika. The problem of South Afrika is that the black people were brought at the alter so that white people will be pleased now anything that continues in the route of compromising the black people that thing is pro white. The only way to keep the white status is to put the black people at the alter. Now let me come to the actual problem of South Afrika, the actual problem of South Afrika is landlessness, disposession, of the black people. Now on Zuma Corruption after mentioning Thomas Sankara, Sir Mike T, I would be disrespectful to mention Zuma (an orphan) in the same sentence as Sankara (the father of Afrika). Apart from the fact that I trully don’t like it when white people criticise the black ANC (which is their victim) I am well aware of the downfalls of the ANC. Also it will be so unfair of me to mention Zuma without mentioning the “great” Dr Nelson Mandela. To criticise Zuma and the ANC leaving Mandela and the ANC will be crime of me so I thought I don’t have to even go there. Whatever Zuma did is not will never be worse than what Mandela did by sacrifficing the nation of black people (80 % of the population) at the white alter so that he would get all the praises that he is getting now. Also if I was white I would be very greatful for a man such as he. Zuma is a product of Mandela and Mandela was worse than Zuma. I know I am moving South Afrika to talk about Mandela like that. On the questionb of involuntary justice, I am not mistaken to say justice should be done on the basis that it is right and not because it pleases or is bruising. I’m sure we are not of the intention (or atleast I’m not) of reconciling the evil with Good because we will be trying to do the impossible not even God was able to do that hence when the light came the darkness was destroyed. It is very evil to withhold justice, justice should be a flow. Justice is not a thing that “can” but it is something that must be done. Let me pause here
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
I agree that corruption isn’t the problem in SA but it is part of the problem. It also isn’t the only thing the DA stands for. I don’t understand how you go from their anti-corruption stance to thinking that they want to use that to keep the status quo and thereby keeping white privilege.
I also cannot understand your statements comparing Nelson Mandela and Jacob Zuma. So, what you’re saying is that Mr Mandela pushed for the outcome we have now just for his praise and glory? What outcome would you have suggested as an alternative? Surely this was better than civil war? I can’t believe that despite Mr Mandela’s decades in prison, danger he faced and the peaceful transition we had from Apartheid, that you would view him in a bad, selfish light. Mr Zuma has been caught up in corruption scandles long before he was president and the self-enrichment has only worsened. To pull it back to the original topic, surely you can’t excuse Mr Zuma’s actions as being a product of Apartheid and yet fight the other products of Apartheid so firmly. Regardless of the performance of the ANC in general, surely the least one can do is hold leaders accountable for their actions?
I’ve heard that landlessness is a major part of the problem in SA but I’m not 100% sure why. Part of it is that black people don’t have it as an asset to get bank loans to do things like start businesses but I’m ignorant of the other impacts.
From what I’ve learned this year living in a rural community, often when productive farmland is given back to black owners, they either rent the land back to a skilled farmer (not having the skills themselves), and then just receive rent money from the farm; or they live on the land and do subsistence farming, turning an existing productive farm into a farm producing only enough for the people who live their; or they just let the land become wild. It can’t be expected that non-farmers should suddenly succeed in farming, which is why I struggle with farms being turned over to non-farmers without any kind of training or handover. For non-farming land redistribution the impact is surely a lot less. Turning South Africa’s farms over to non-farmers (regardless of colour) would be an absolute disaster for SA’s economy. Surely agricultural land redistribution can’t happen without training as well?
Mr Mike T anyone who leaves the question of the land out of the proportion that person has no interest in solving the South Afrikan problem. If the many years of improsonment of Mandela were just that we can be in the same toilet with white people, he went to that prison in vain! Same toilet justice is hell! Which is what we are currently experiencing as the majority of this country. If he went in prison such that 80% of the South Afrikan wealth be controlled by 7% of the population he went to that prison in vain! This question of. Civil war I think we need to ask ourselves who said that if Mandela did the right thing or stood for the stance of the ANC and the rest of South Afrika going to the negotiations we would have been in Civil war? Whites are the safest people in our country abd that’s what Mandela achieved black people remains under the same violence of apartheid except for him and his allies. Apartheid remains the greatest project ever in South Afrika, apartheid achieved its objectives which were to keep the black people at the receiving end and the fight against apartheid was not to smile at white people but to be equals inb every sphere. If to be equals to you means civil war then you are in trouble. Mandela sold the black people that’s the point. The land must be returned as for the training let’s begin to talk about that when we seeing movements towards that just act of God. Other than that we will be wasting time which has been wasted already. Zuma corrupted money worth his family but whites together with Mandela corrupted the nation of the black people by selling the black people. Its selfish to speak out about Mandela and its fine to speak out about Zuma I know why
Let me ask my questions more clearly:
– How did Mandela sell out black South Africans?
– What would you have suggested he do instead?
– How does land redistribution solve the problem?
– What good will it do redistributing land before people are trained to not squander it?
You didn’t really answer any of the questions.
How did Mandela sell the black nation?
This is a very good question, but its hard to answer it because one has to go against the current when answering this. It is more difficult to answer it because it is popular believed that Mandela is the hero. Let me summarise this answer by saying Mandela went to prison with the mandate of the majority and he came back with the mandate of the minority and it is the mandate of the minority that is ruling South Afrika today. Mandela said it himself that “when negotiating you must be prepared to compromise” and in this case compromise is a decorated word for selling out! Because you compromise on whose basis? You compromise who and by whose mandate did Mandela’s compromise? Is this compromise on both parties? If so what did whites compromise? The only thing that was compromised by whites was the logos that states “balcks only” or “whites only” on toilets hence we are free to be in the same toilet with white people. There is a slogan of the revolutionary ANC that was saying “Mayibuye I Afrika” if you understand the true meaning of that slogan you would understand the actual reason why ANC was! ANC was never formed that we may ttolerate each other (whites and blacks) but ANC was formed because they recognised the humanity of all men! One of the founding fathers of the ANC says a statement “a people with no land are no people” tatu Langa Libalele Dube, this should tell you the sole purpose for the formation of the ANC. It was to restore the humanity of the black people now the heroism of Mandela can be measured on those basis not on the continued dehumanisation of the black people. We were sold out and we were made to accept the superiority of the white people by being given freedom of speech, and “pseudo” freedom for movement. Freedom of speech allows me to say freely that Mandela is a sell out. Anthony Lambede says there is a sole connection between the soil and the soul. When the land was stollen at the burrel of a gun the very soul of the black people was stollen. Now the basis of heroism is decided at the actual restoration of the soul of the black people or if not then death as he would “for this purpose I am willing to die” Mandela.
Nkosi, i would be interested to hear a bigger picture of this question because we all know the white men came and took the land from the black men, BUT if we go a little further back i believe there is a time where the black men moved South in Africa and took the land from the original inhabitants [would that be the Khoi and San?] and so how far back do we need to look to find true justice?
What would you have suggested he do instead?
This kind of an easy one if you can get the gist of the answer I gave for ur first question. The freedom charter was more pleasant to the white people than for black people yet the freedom charter was left out for something much much worse such that I don’t even know what document was used for those negotiations that were held secretly. So atleast if Mandela stood for freedom charter which was not that bad for black people yet so good for white people. He should have presented the majority cry instead of maintaining the riches (blood money) of the white people.
How does land redistribution solve the problem?
Let me answer this by saying If land redistribution is outside of the equation then the struggle was invane! The battle of Isandlwane would be invane, the death of Robert Mangaliso Sobukhwe would be invane, the death of Anthony Lambede would be invane, the death of Zephania Mothupeng would be invane! the death of Biko, Chris Hani, Sabelo Phama would be invane! The people I mentioned up there if they were alive they would still be fighting just as Tatu Mangqangwana, tatu Makwethu and many others are still fighting!!!! Equali redistribution of land would help white people to realise that they are not stewards of the black people and they are not superiors of the black people and simple oppressors but they are just mere human beings. Just as equal redistriibution of land would restore the dignity of the black people to come to a realisation that they are not inferior, and God didn’t entrust them to the white people and they are not slaves but they are mere human beings. Also you would understand what I am saying here by reffering to the quote by Sting of equality and also looking at the two quotes I gave from Mr Dube and Proff Lambede. Redistribution of the land is for the dignity of the black people.
What good will it be redistributing land to people before they are trained won’t it squander?
Mr Mike T under ideal conditions I don’t answer this question. If I were to be anywhere else I would tell you I need no training for my land because I will pee and play soccer on it so I don’t have to be trained to do that. But being aware that we are a group that is trying to build South Afrika I will try my best to answer you as far as my abilty as possible. I must say first that this is deaming and disrespectful, if but I guess we want to build South Afrika I will answer it. This question suggests that the land was violently taken at the burrel of a gun because we were not trained to use it, so people who are trained have it, a total insult. This question is always said and it is so offensive but today for the first I will answer it to a white person. I may not trully know your motives but I guess we are here trying to build. Answering your qestion I think I said in one of my coments here let’s talk about training when the processes of equal redistribution are at hand ada than that we are wasting time. Also if white people wants black people to know the technical know how of using the land they would be training the black people but bcz they want to hold onto the land they won’t. I also think that when talking about training one of the best forms of training is inservice training meaning train the people on their own land. Meaning expropriate the land and use it to train them.
I also have the same question as Brett which is something I’ve never understood, what the difference is between land taken at the end of a barrel or at the end of a spear.
In terms of Mandela, of course a compromise was required. You make it sound as though black people’s situations worsened at the end of Apartheid but that’s not true. The obvious thing that white people lost was control over the government and their exclusive opportunities at good jobs and services. Black people gained the ability to vote, the governance of the country and access to better jobs and services. What they sacrificed was revenge for the dreadful years before. It’s not an ideal situation but it is a lot better than it was during Apartheid.
I still don’t understand why land redistribution is so important. I mean, the urban black middle-upper class are increasingly owning houses. Rural black people living on the hillside are already living on land they have exclusive access to. Perhaps ownership is wrapped up in tribal land allotted by a chief or king but then the reason those people don’t own the land is not because of white people. The people who I think are worst off are the very poor black urban people, often moving in from rural areas. What I struggle with in that case is how people expect to arrive in a city and own the land.
There are groups of farmers who work with black farmers to improve skills and to train them prior to land redistribution, and I think we need more of that. Having said that, to turn over productive farms to non-farmers would be an absolute disaster for the economy. One only needs to look at Zim for how that would turn out. You’re right that no one needs training to own land, but as a country, we do need skilled farmers to produce food for people and money for the economy. Turning commercial farms into subsistence farms would result in starving people and expensive food which would ultimately favour those who have money, namely the white people. It cannot work that way.
I don’t know who owns all the undeveloped rural land in SA and that seems like a good candidate for land redistribution but developed commercial farms don’t fall in the same category for me.
My motive is to help build SA, otherwise I wouldn’t be here commenting. So, please take it easy and let’s continue the discussion.
Hey Bret I hear your question, but I think we need to be very careful on who tells us that history. First of all I don’t know who informs such a thinking that the bantu stole the land from Khois and Sans and also I don’t know why such a person does that!!!! That history which was told from evil motives is a limitted history as you and I both don’t know if Bantus actually were once in South Afrika before the acclaimed rearival. In The olden days u will find that people use to move from area to area in search for survival meaning we both not so sure if Bantu were once here. Also remember that Afrika had no borders hence I hate the notion that my brothers from Zim, Nigeria or any other Afrikan are called foreigners. Borders were created by blood thirstiness, and greed. We used to live in. Harmony as a result you are here talking to a discendent of Khois who happens to be a member of the bantu people (Xhosa). I am a descendant of Khoi so please don’t create confusion. O wrote on this in my blog you can read on it. This is another question that I don’t like to answer. But I did here http://nkosivumile.blogspot.com/2014/02/khoisans-are-afrikans-and-afrika-is-for.html?m=1
Mike T
You don’t understand why black people must get the land? Also my take on this thing of the stability of the country, I think it is not a stability of the country but it is the stability of the white people. Mr Mike T when talking about Zimbabwe stop comparing black Zimbabweans with White South Afrikans because you will surely see the difference. South Afrika has two countries in one; we have the white Souuth Afrika that is stinky rich and we have the black South Afrika that is extreamly poor (from disposession bcz they were not trained). Now your comparison should be between the black South Afrikans and the black Zimbabweans. I would rather have all South Afrika hungry with their land in their hand than have them poor with their land in the hands of disposessors. I choose not to engage this Rural talk and plz no further questions on it. Max Du Prix once said that expropriation of the land in SA will affect the rich and the poor people won’t feel a thing. Ask yourselves who is rich and who is poor. Let summarise that question for you white people are rich and black people are poor. Now I’d rather have a Zimbabwe than a white pleasing South afrika.
Surely the compromise is worse because we would still be fighting the obvious evil today than to fight the hidden one. It has worsened now because we don’t know who to fight as a result we end up on drugs and suicide, robery and ultimate death at prime age. When we were fighting we knew what we were fighting for and Mandela compromised now we are confused. Mike T I want the land to be redistrubuted without training we will learn to use it when we have it. Those few white people does not measure up to the evil of 1913. So land must be returned we will then consider trainings. Mandela is the greatest killer of the black people that you saying they are in a better state today. I don’t know what is better in black communities, economy is in the white hands to this day. Please don’t tell me about this black middle class thingy ANC is busy giving people false hope because they are white pleasers. Its 20 years later and we want equality in SA. Continued injustice creates slaves and slave masters, the massage is still relevant to this day: “let my people go”. But Pharoar is always hard to let go the greep of slavery on Israel.
Hmm…
Really good this, all REALLY good up until his DA bit. Nkosivumile, you’re let down a bit by your regurgitating of baseless political rhetoric. Unfortunately, friend, you’re believing a lie. It’s not about political alignment or skin colour – when I vote, I hold up God’s priorities (absolutely social justice as one), and vote in line with who is doing the best job of adressing those things (and I’m aware it’s generally a best of 2 bad choices). My allegiance is to Jesus, so if the ANC were the best choice, I would vote that way. However, it simply isn’t.
My friend Mzwabantu, who lived in Khayelitsha for many years and now stays in Dunoon, will tell you the DA is categorically doing a better job of services to the poor than the ANC ever did. The ANC in it’s current form is stealing from you and your children, and sabotaging any hope our country has of ever addressing the injustices of the past in any meaningful manner. Its corruption is sabotaging african children’s eduction, and sabotaging african children’s future employment by making business incresingly hard to do in and with South Africa. Your ‘don’t vote DA’ bit is as weak as the rest of your article is poingant and insightful. You are clearly serious about the poor, so I suggest you go look at the affect the respective policies are having on the ground in the real world, and not what your fairly obvious policial allegiances are telling you. Not what they say in writing, but what they do – the actions they drive. It’s as important to african people as the rest of your article is to white people.
And the rest of your article is exactly that, extremely important. Especially the ‘change your way of life’ bit. It’s something that’s permeated my family’s life the last 2 years in a big way, and we see the results in the people’s lives around us. There’s so much I want to say on it, but this isn’t my blog and you got it, so to say i agree is an understatement of note. Well said…
Thanks David. This is great stuff guys. Love the love for so much of Nkosi’s post which you agree with and then taking strong issue with that which you feel strongly about. I know Nkosi is in the midst of a really busy week and i don’t want to distract him from everything he has to do but i do hope that if/when life calms down that he will come and give some more reflection on his thoughts, especially the parts about the DA which some people seem to be taking issue with – but i think that for the most part we are all strongly agreeing with the rest of what he shared and saying there is some uber helpful stuff in there and let’s be taking it seriously and digging a little deeper on the issues we agree less about.
Totally, I’m also keen to hear more on the ‘money alone won’t solve the issue’ side of things.
The impact on a community of poor health has become a lot more apparent this year working at a rural hospital. Similarly hearing the affect on people of poor education.
Mr David thankyou so much Sir, before I engage on this can you plz tell me what are the pro poor policies of the DA? I want to know what is it of the social justice that the DA brings about maybe its just ma ignorance, plz help my ignorance
Brett, Sanda and Seleb thanx guys! Seleb and Sanda I share the same sentiments as the two of you.
Brett, Sanda and Seleb thanx guys! Seleb and Sanda I share the same sentiments as the two of you. Thanx again for sharing your thought provoking sentiments
Thanks ta wise… I’ve learnt so much just from reading this blog. #eye opener # keep up the good work at helping our people.
In lieu of what Gola said, many white people have the misconception that when one speaks of justice and restitution they speak of purporting violence and crime against white people, however, that is not the case.
The real issue is that even though apartheid has “ended”, the black majority of the country still live in undignified, sub-standard and very poor conditions thanks to the institutions left behind by apartheid and other capitalist, fascist actions that were enacted against the black nation.
Now the effects of those are still felt today, were equality isn’t equality at all. Quoting from George Orwell’s book, The Animal Farm, they had six commandments, one stood out for me till today, “all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others”.
Now if we move away from the people we will never understand and resolve any issues regarding our society which is what the institutions of apartheid left behind. White minority still rules the country whether we choose to accept that or not. This is what is happening today, all those that are in power have moved away from the people and those who are in an unfair position of comfort with wealth they acquired in a very unfair manner. We live in a country with one of the highest income inequalities in the world, now if we keep on sugar coating things, the country or the majority will never heal nor move forward.
In isiXhosa we say, “isilonda siphila ngothunukwa”, meaning we need to go to where it hurts the most in order to heal of which many whites fear to do.
We are not purporting violence on the white nation but rather the reparation and the restoration of dignity and pride to the black nation.
Wow Stng that was so super helpful – i hope white south africans are reading this – when can i get you to write a piece for me with all this in it?
Thank you so much for stopping by
love brett fish
Hi Sting
I totally agree with your first 3 paragraphs. I have some questions though.
How does the white minority still rule the country? Surely you mean economically and not politically?
You mention income inequality. What I’d like to know is if there is a feeling amongst black people that things are generally getting better. For instance this article from 2012 (http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2012/08/28/south-african-living-standards-improve-study) says that living standards across the board are increasing. Of course that doesn’t address inequality but it does seem that people are living in more comfort (or less discomfort) than 10 years ago.
In terms of income inequality, an article from after the last census (http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-south-africa/income-levels-for-white-south-africans-growing-the) says that:
“the black African majority remains the worst affected by poverty and that income inequality remains a major issue.
It also shows, however, that if one looks at income growth, the group where growth has been the fastest over the last decade is in the black African category, growing at 169.12%”
Is this a case of a big, bad problem taking a while to improve or is it a big problem that isn’t improving significantly at all?
So, what do you propose we do? It seems like your 2 main points were income inequality and the lingering effects of Apartheid institutions. Would you mind also giving a couple of examples of how Apartheid institutions still oppress black people?
Looking forward to your response.
Loving the conversation. Thanks Mike and Avuyile (Sting) and Nkosi. Keep on. Hopefully more will join in.
Hi Mike,
Thank you for engaging me in this conversation, clearly you are a man of research. You are on the right track to say they have economic power.
To answer you more effectively, I once read an article online about a Zimbabwean activist against an “apartheid” like regime in former Rhodesia, were by black people were also denied certain freedoms. Now this guy had a conversation with one of the police (white) officers sent to capture him.
They had conversation in which the black guy said they can hang me but victory we shall have in the end, to counter this claim, the white man said to him you may have political power but we will have economic power which translates to absolute power.
Now he maintained that we will inherit ways and systems developed by the Europeans, who are the only people who have the know-how of operating and the system. Hence I say the minority rules. The black “government” has now inherited this economic system that was devised and developed by the white men and the only way we can operate and keep it moving is to beg the white man for the information of which they intentionally with hold the information for ensuring their financial security. If you look close to home, South Africa, the top richest people in the country are whites who account to less than 10% of the population.
Now clearly you can see that black oppression was a clearly outlined and detailed plan to gain wealth and prosperity. Coming to the inequality issue, growing salaries among blacks doesn’t necessarily translate to equality. In fact, there is growing inequality among the black on their own. Anyone who has been to Khayelitsha if you are around Cape Town you will see what I am talking about. Now outcomes of some of these statistics may be inflated by the rise in income for some black minority whereas the vast majority still live in utter despairing conditions.
Now the growth in income among black people still isn’t sufficient to eradicate the extreme poverty faced by the majority of the black people. Remember, most statistics are sample statistics that can be slightly biased in their results.
Just to illustrate how apartheid still dominates to this day, if you can conduct a study of senior top managers around the country, you will a large number is still predominantly white individuals with a big gap between them and black individuals in a junior position.
We have our parents work as domestics and construction workers and those are mostly black individuals trying to make a living, which is puny considering a white person may go to a restaurant and pay R 700 for a meal but goes back home to pay his domestic helper a miserly R 120 for a day’s work which need cover transport and food and other daily expenses.
Now do you suppose that is fair and just to the next person?
Hmmm, interesting story from the 2 people in Zimbabwe.
In terms of the majority of a country’s wealth being held by a small handful of people, unfortunately that happens almost everywhere. Added to this problem in SA is that it’s mainly white people there. I agree that there are some black people moving into that elite but agreed, it doesn’t help the general black person.
The issue of white people in senior positions and black people in junior issues is a difficult one I think. One of the lasting tragedies of Apartheid is the generally poor education most black people got (unless they were fortunate enough to be able to study overseas). One can’t expect to put uneducated people of any colour into a senior position if they’re actually unable to appropriately perform the role. For me, this is one of the major reasons why I think education is so key in fixing SA. For those educated black people who should be in senior positions, I hope they get them. As for those who are already middle-aged and uneducated, I don’t know what can be done.
Your last paragraph is why I really struggle to spend money on myself, and I think as time goes on, will struggle to spend money on my family and may struggle to be generous to my friends. I absolutely agree that it’s insane that people do that, but I struggle to find the balance. How much is ok to spend on yourself? That’s a question to anyone who has more than someone else.
So, is a reasonable strategy for the typical white person to maybe commit earlier to employing a non-white domestic/garden worker, to pay them a proper wage/salary in the hopes of their children growing up as educated black South Africans in a great position to make a difference?
It doesn’t sound very impressive, but given the conversation so far, it seems like something achievable that does help move a few things in the right direction.
Just to add a footnote to my suggestion at the end of my previous comment.
The reason I suggest that is because we can’t change the big problems on our own and I think the point of this whole post was to try find something practical that the average white person could do.
Also, what I felt was implicit but maybe should’ve been explicit was that white people need to learn to sacrifice some of the standard of living that they may be capable of in order to help other non-white people’s situations.
I absolutely didn’t mean to just keep pushing the norm of rich white people employing poor black people. The point was sacrifice -> employ the unemployed -> pay a good salary/wage -> help the next generation to be on a more even playing field.
[…] by Nkosi Gola Originally published at brettfish.wordpress.com […]
Firstly thank you for a great and thought provoking post. So much so that I have been chewing on it a few days. I have a couple of questions or perhaps needed clarifications. Firstly as I read the article I am unsure if you are primarily talking to or about government and/or church, not that they are necessarily mutually exclusive, but it does go down to areas of influence and what our expectations of church and of state are? For instance as Christians we naturally have a far greater area of influence, responsibility and even power to effect changes in the church? While I do not think church and government are mutually exclusive and the two of course overlap but I do not think it is helpful to equate the two. Perhaps you can give me some insight as to where you see your thoughts effecting the church and the government?
I am also very interested in how one compels justice. I understand the point you are making about the voluntary nature of acts of justice among in particular white people or “do-gooders” but it is the opposite of voluntary justice that interests me. I understand a government could implement just laws that redress some of the past injustices but that would still not equate to justice. For instance the attempt at redress in the EE/AA laws are not per se bad laws but because there is no heart change people have been more about complying with the laws, often doing as little as they have to, without actually pursuing justice. Can the government actually force justice or can it merely create an environment for justice through the creation of just laws and a just and fair context? As for church I think that whilst we need to teach that the gospel demands justice living and just lifestyle, and white Christians definitely need to start talking about this more and in far stronger terms. We need to make wealthy Christians profoundly uncomfortable with their lack of justice and comprise to the idols of security and comfort. But again I am not sure we can compel anyone to just living or even obedience to the gospel.
Hi John I am honored and humbled Sir!!!!!
The role of the church I would say it is that of the leader today. We are suppose to be the embodiment of reconciliation. We are suppose to show the world what it means to live in a just world because we are the ones who (suppose) know justice as it was clearly defined to us by the work of the cross. The role of the church then it is to pressure the government into just acts but that is impossible if the church itself is far away from justice. The church as an outside and superior body that has been given the ministry of reconciliation have a better vision and insight on these issues and they can pressure the government into the right direction, I just hope that this exhaust the first part of you questioning.
Yes I believe the government must enforce justice, as much as it was possible to enforce injustice in SA enforcing laws that are intentional in addressing the past is necessary. I am saying it must be involuntary in a sense that one will have to behave or jump as Malema would say. Land must be redistributed with the willingness of those that currently have the land or without their willingness. We can not continue pleasing a minority group at the expense of the majority as Mandelas greatest blunder. To love this minority will be to take what does not belong to them and redistribute it amongst Afrikans (an Afrikan is defined by ones commitment in Afrika) equally. Loving them is to force them to do the right thing if they are not interested that’s the root of colonialism and a symbol of apartheid violence and such a person proves to be impossible to co-operate and live with that’s the type that must be taken back to the sea and that’s what I call involuntary justice. The role of the church is to pressure the government and it does works. It is for a Christian to apply justice from within but to help those of disobedience law must be applied with hands of steel let us never intertin the reconciliation of evil with good as per TUTU and MANDELA choice.
Great to hear this perspective. I think, personally, there are a few issues.
1. Social justice and activism are actually not always the same thing. I think it’s important to note that a lot of activism is just self-righteous posturing that really favours those doing the activism more than the supposed people they are standing up for. Jesus was not an activist – I don’t seem him being one in any part of the scriptures. That ought to tell us to make a distinction between real social justice and today’s versions of it.
2. All fair and well until we get to the DA bit. I couldn’t care much for the DA, personally – I see them as nanny-statish for one, and too Western for another. This leads into my main point: Nkosi, I think you’re barking up the wrong tree. The problem isn’t the DA or the whiteness dynamic as much as the importing and veneration of Western thinking and ideas as superior and *right.* When we need South African solutions for South Africans, both the ANC, DA and most of the other options (and let’s face it, there aren’t really options) are selling us into the global, predominantly Western, market-driven individualistic narrative where success and economical power is basically the point of life. This is seen to be the saviour of our problems. Even our ties with China and socialism still perpetuate the same narrative: that economics is everything. This runs directly against the Gospel at every point – and churches have bought into it. Jesus was pro-poor, but not because he valued economics as highly as our current culture believes we all should.
To make my case a little more clear, I find it strange that on weekends our malls are full but our museums are struggling. We value the almighty Rand and the here-and-now more than we value our heritage and our future. As much as black guys want to talk about their heritage and their people, at every turn I’m seeing them sell themselves out to the economics-is-everything narrative. Old Zuma is a case in point: our highest form of leadership seems to think only in terms of Rands than in terms of Sense.
Ah man, this is great stuff – i would love for this to be the 5,6,8 of us sitting around a table fleshing this stuff out. Thanks for your thoughts Ryan – the western narrative i think is a key issue and figuring out exactly what we are aiming for…
Important though to be clear that those of us who are Christians are not aiming for a Western or an African mindset (I am not sure if in many parts of South Africa we can even untangle them any more?) We must beware of making the Western mindset all wrong and the African all right in reaction to the opposite being (almost?) true for so long. We must aim to bring both of them under the scrutiny of Scripture and begin to develop a deeply biblical mindset. There is of course always the danger that one or the other tradition will dominate, as it has in the past, which is why I suggest that we need to learn to read Scripture in community with a variety of different racial, theological and economic voices and in so doing begin to get closer to understanding the heart of the passage.
WOW Ryan thankyou so much for such a knowledge. I just don’t get what you mean when you saying Jesus was not an activist? Social justice how does it differ from activism? Activism is to go against the current and status quo bringing radical means wasn’t Jesus like that?
Its very true what you are saying but then remember how did the writing of this blog come about, This is a compromise, it is a compromise in a sense that I am asked a question of “what do white people interested in justice but not owning land do in the meantime?” When you say there are no options I think maybe you don’t refer to policies there are many parties with great policies that are pro poor. But I don’t intend to talk about who but I will clearly say to you that both ANC and DA are instruments of black oppression and Mandela is the father of that.
Wow, I missed all this conversation — wonderful to show up now and read all this wonderful interaction and very challenging thinking. Thank you Nkosi, for engaging on this so honestly and wisely. And thank you to those who took the time to respond too — I, for one, am richer for it.
Thankyou cc Linds, I’m honoured!!!!!
[…] [For an excellent piece and maybe even better conversation in the comments on first steps white Sout… […]
[…] loved the conversation going on in the comments section of the blog piece Nkosi wrote for me on First Steps White South Africans can make towards a really new South Africa. My friend Lex passed on a response from her friend, Sindile, which i thought would be good to use […]
[…] passionate about racial justice and want to learn more, head over! (Recently on Irresistibly Fish, Nkosi shared some of his views on what white people can do to help make South Africa a more just society, […]
[…] First Steps Towards a really New South Africa: Nkosi Gola gives some thoughts on the question, ‘What can white people do as first steps towards making a difference?’ […]
Mr Gola 🙂 Ambu here…
enjoyed reading your stuff.. Can i just ask something, cause you seem informed?
-So no Mandela no Black oppression?
-And land redistribution… practically, how does that look? Who gives the land to who specifically?
-How can the church pressure the government to justice using the example of Jesus?
#NotPickingAfight
Hey Ambu, Let me first clear up my stance concerning Mandela I celebrate the Mandela who was arrested and taken away from us and I despise every bit from the Mandela who was released from prison to us. I don’t attack Mandela per say but the heroing of a man who turned against his people. I think then to answer your question if Mandela did the right thing in his release we wouldn’t be wasting time having these talks here but maybe we would have been talking of something else.
Land redistribution ambu who has the land? Who does not have the land? He who has the land must be forced to share with those who dont have the land(though its theirs). The minute you mention the name Jesus never separate that name in any justice act. Jesus is actually Gods Justice in action. The church should be a place where black radical activism is raised. The church should be a place where justice activists are made. So Jesus would use His pullpit to speak against injustice then that is axactly what we should be doing. By the Jesus is>>>>> Meaning He is now dealing with the injustice of this world so the church must join into Him. We are not talking about a historic figure we are talking about Emanuel. The one who promised that He will be with us until the end of times. So the pullpit should not be a tickling toy but Gods stage of dealing with human cruell hearts so that men may repent……. I hope you are answered.
Sorry for jumping into the conversation so late — not too late, I hope! Nkosi, I found your piece an interesting and informative read. Your highlight a number of things that South Africans, specifically white South Africans, should take note of if they are ever to understand and appreciate their black colleagues and neighbours.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you point out the communal worldview found in African cultures (e.g. the community taking responsibility for raising a child, not just the immediate family) versus the individualistic worldview so pervasive in western cultures. “Umuntu ngumuntu ngabantu”, but then, “I think, therefore I am”… Unfortunately, a failure to understand and accept another culture’s worldview is a great hindrance to unifying people from different backgrounds. Just as folk from a western background find it hard to accept that their black colleague or friend cannot be understood or interacted with in a vacuum, totally separate from their family, clan, neighbours, community, etc, people from an African background criticise white individuals’ attempts at reaching out to black individuals, trying to make a difference to the people they know while not being so interested in their whole community. Both groups still struggle to understand what is important to the other, criticising the other group for not focussing on the things they think are crucial and will take the country forward. I appreciate your perspective on this, and I think white folk should read and take it to heart. However, (and this is probably politically totally incorrect), might I suggest that your sharp rejection of some white people’s attempts at reaching out to black folk from within their own cultural worldview indicates a need for growth and understanding also in your perspective as a black South African?
Without wanting to sound critical, however, I do have a few issues with some of your points. First, I would like to understand what exactly you are suggesting when you talk about voluntary vs. enforced justice. I stand to be corrected, but the enforced justice you promote seems to suggest a communist framework. Is that in fact what you are saying? If so, I think that (and your strong criticism against the DA and Madiba/Tutu) is a major issue. Among other things, communism has time and again proved to be a model which eventually runs countries, their economies and people into the ground, causing untold suffering. Just think of the former USSR, Ethiopia, etc. You quote the early church in Acts as an ideal Christian example. However, it seems to me that their sharing their possessions with their brothers and sisters was an entirely voluntary (and commendable) act rather than an enforced, communist-type system. Ananias and Sapphira were told by the apostle Peter that their property was theirs to do with as they chose and that they did not have to sell it nor give the full price to the church. Their sin was in pretending that they had given the full amount, as many others had done willingly. Instead of some enforced political system of “justice” which can (and will) be abused, those early Christians seemed to obey their conscience, with everyone doing what they could, out of sincere love for their fellow believers and reverence for God.
I do agree wholeheartedly with you, however, that more can and must be done about the conscience of (in)justice in our world and also South Africa. That is such a vast and crucial topic that I do not even want to venture there in this already lengthy comment.
Also, I am not quite sure what you are trying to say about training. On the one hand, you seem to brush it off as a relatively low priority (with the right to urinate and play football on the land as apparently more crucial than training in how to develop it for the benefit of the whole nation). On the other hand, you accuse white people of withholding knowledge and skills transfer from black folk, apparently so they (the whites) can maintain their position of power. I am not sure that I understand what you are suggesting in this area.
Your point about the injustice of not having access to land is a very good one. Although I do take issue with your suggestions (or at least with what I understand them to be), I think the hurt and indignity of being treated as if one were not a part of the land, in this case specifically black South Africans, is hard to even imagine for those not affected by it. This cry should be heard loud and clear! This wound should be attended to with the necessary compassion and care. I do not think, however, I could get excited about a model that fails to also consider the long-term effects on the nation as a whole, setting the country on a course leading to abject poverty and suffering (as in famine and starvation, not just having too little). Two wrongs don’t make a right!
Then, I think claiming that Africans were living in peace before the Europeans arrived is not a very accurate statement. Bloodshed, wars, tribal rivalries (cattle raids, etc.), chasing other groups off their land, were most definitely not unknown in Africa before the advent of the colonial era. There are enough reliable accounts testifying that these things were as alive and well in Africa (and Southern Africa) as elsewhere in the world. I do not think it unfair to say that, being sinful human beings no different from anyone else, Africans have also caused injustice and suffering to others, the strong oppressing and exploiting the weak. No better nor any worse than any other humans sharing this planet. This of course is not at all meant to negate the wrongs committed by the colonial powers, especially in places such as Africa, the Americas, Southeast Asia and Australia. There is no doubt that black (South) Africans have suffered and been exploited by white colonialists for a long time. Let no-one claim that justice was done to the non-white people of South Africa under the previous regime! Let no-one despise the wound of the black South African soul.
So, these are my thoughts, and responses after reading your thought-provoking post. Perhaps I am misunderstanding some of what you are trying to say; I would be happy to be corrected if I am.
Peace, mzalwane. A o tlhabelwe ke letsatsi. Konke kube hele, kube chosi kuwe.
Wow, thank you so much for stopping by and sharing your thoughts. If you would be up to writing a piece on the topic please email me at brettfish@hotmail.com and i will hook you up cos sounds like you have much wisdom to dispense with us and i really appreciate the humility with which you approach disagreement or possible disagreement. I imagine Nkosi will have some good response and further thoughts on what you have raised and would love to have you write a piece giving some suggestions to maybe all South Africans [and not just whites] in terms of next steps…
love brett fish
Thanks for your prompt reply, Brett, and for offering me the opportunity to write something on the topic. I will give it some thought. I am actually more of an “impulsive replier” than a “piece writer”, though. You know, reading a post such as this, being challenged, expressing the subsequent strong emotions and opinions, enjoying the discussion, that sort of thing.
Keep well!
Thanx so much Pererin so much
I trully appreciate your contribution here. Let me first say that to me this is very close to my heart this is not just a hobby. This is very personal to me, this is very emotional. I am not here trying to prove my interlectuallity or how cleverly can I respond but I believe that I am expositing the wound of the black people as you would see that each and evry black person who happened to comment here identified with what I said. Many of which even claim that I was too shallow and accomodative but understood. With that in mind, let me try and respond. I will try and summarise you second paragraph that needs my response, did you know that I was taught how to use fock and knife and i was also taught “table manners” and the person who was teaching me these things thought in their contribution in my life was exceptionally what I needed. Guess what I know how to use fock and knife and I know “table manner” (as westerners defines it) yet the condition of my people remains much darker than it was. Basically All those kind of indoctrinations are very very useless if they don’t contribute to the overall pain. Therefore growth and understanding in me yes might be needed yet one thing I refuse to understand is the continued Kafferisation of the black people. I think we have learned everyhing from the white people, if you don’t believe me look at South Afrika it looks like a province somewhere in Europe, the name South Afrika itself is a proof of that, the national anthem itself is a proof of that and have you tried to look at the meaning of the white part of our national flag?, and now the least that I am asking is from my white brothers and sisters to atleast learn the Afrikan ways as they are closest to their professed “christianity”. Yes even the Afrikan traditions do need redemption as my friend Siki once said but yet I think there is a lot to learn there. I think black Afrkans themselves have lost their traditions such that they have learned the individualism as you have noted above, ofwhich I dont know where individualism as far as Christianity is concerned.
On the part of communist framework, did you know that Mandela (Madiba I like that LOL) himself was not far fond from communist policies. Such that even “umkhonto wesizwe” is a millitary wing of the South Afrikan communist party (SACP) and Madiba was the commander thereof. So when you are refering to communists don’t separate Mandela there. Coming to your question communism is a forreign system which I never intend to following yet I prefere it more than the white and black middle class celebrated, black and white distroying capitalism. Capitalism is a killer it killed more than 34 people (black people mind you) not so longer ago (just for interest sake). I won’t talk about DA, I choose not to. About communism running down countries, tell me who is run up by capitalism, Im sure you wont be interested to the answer I would give you on that. Yes capitalism is working in SA but the question is for who? This is perharps a rhethorical question as we both know who is capitalism working for. To answer you on my stance on communism no I believe in Afrikan democratic socialism and you can also define it as UBUNTU. I think I mentioned Thomas “the great” Sankara you can also refere to him.
I love the point you are bringing up about the early church and their willfully release and sharing of possessions, look in the early church they were united, loving and not killing one onother, right? Yes Im right, now because of that they didn’t need police officers to provide safety and all that. Now concerning the matter at hand in any society if safety of people is undermined then governments has to provide that safety by employing police and all that so that law enforcement to all the deliquents will be put into place. Now coming to your point yes I believe that these laws should be enforced to help those who enjoys the thingification of black people to come to their senses, we are not here trying to please the minority at the expense of the majority and I don’t think that is something we are to plead with anyone for.
The question of training, please go read my comment again concerning urinating on the field or playing soccer. I personally want inservice training so that the process of redistribution will not drag any longer. This is an urgent matter and to be busy arguing and showing our interlectual capacities about training and all that is a waste of time, people are dying daily. Lack of access to land is the kafferisation of the black people, it is better to call me Kaffer than to act as if I am the kaffer. Many thinks that by not calling me a kaffer is enough but refusal of releasing the land is not just to call me a kaffer but to make me one. Therefore this talk of food security at risk, food security of who? if the majority of this country daily faces sleeping without food. No No NO please let us be reasonable. Also lack of access to land forces slavery, look at the people who are working their own lad in Dedoorns for an example they were on a strike for a lousy R50 extra and two of those on that strike died and thanks to South Afrikan police who the one of the greatest white stollen pocket securities. People in the Boland (Black people) are payed with wine and you want food security, for who? Is wine their food security? Noi!!!!!!. On the land point you raised Im glad you are recognising the pain but please I want people who will identify, recognition is not enough. I think we need to try what we have not tried and not assume it won’t work for we have not tried it. Two rongs surely dont make right but continued wrong is worse than two wrongs.
You see on this issue of Afrikans living in peace before Europeans arived, I am definately with you we have have read on Shaka (one of my great heros of all times) and all. Let me take Shaka for an example as Im drawn to his was of leadership and wariorship. Shaka was a nation builder even though his ways today may be critiqued, rightfully so I think we also need to look into him in historical context. We need to look at him on the basis of what were the kings before him were doing? What were the kings of his time doing and what did he do? AThen from answering these simple questions we will come at the conclusion that Shaka was one of the greatest leaders ever born on this land. Yes there was blood shed a lot perharps yet South Afrika during the years of Shaka was united. There were no Zulus, Xhosas and Suthus as a result you will find today some Zulus with my clan name as a Xhosa. During the times of Shaka under Shakas leadership food was plenty (“food security”). No one lived in poverty under his leadership mind you under his leadership there were also other tribes as he conquored. So Im not saying there was peace but i am saying look into Afrika in context of the time. Let me rather pause here, and Thanx again!!!!!!!!
Thanks, Nkosi, for your thorough and thoughtful reply. I do appreciate that. What you say in your response to another comment is so true: We can talk until the cows come home, but if nothing is actually done, we are wasting our time. However, I believe this kind of discussion is good, since it has the potential to bear fruit; right actions flow from right thoughts and attitudes, which can be achieved by constructive discussions such as this.
I like your point about white South Africans having to learn more about the African worldview and way of life. In fact, I think both groups need to learn from one another. Many white South Africans really have a very limited understanding of the culture of the majority of their fellow citizens, whereas blacks have been forced to become much more intimately acquainted with western culture (through work, etc.). But I daresay that the cultural lens through which black South Africans look (and we all have our cultural lenses) has also prevented them from fully understanding the rationale behind the actions of their white colleagues, neighbours, and friends. There is no doubt, though, that by far the greatest learning curve has to be that of white South Africans.
Your point about treating someone as a “kaffir” although not calling them by that name is very sad and so true. Much more than lip service needs to be paid to reconciliation and nation building! Keep speaking out, mzalwane.
About enforced versus voluntary justice, I take your point. I think where I differ from you is that I do not find grounds in the Christian tradition and Scriptures for legislating justice (on a political level). South Africans certainly need to look more closely at justice, and legislation can play a role in that. That is a civil matter, however, and I would feel uncomfortable when Christ is invoked as the author and instigator of laws. Is that not what the previous regime did? Sanctifying their laws and system by claiming their divine sanction! Many atrocious things have been done in the name of God. What I am trying to say boils down to this:
1. Christ taught us to love God and one another.
2. Our love needs to be demonstrated in practice.
3. God requires justice and leaves us the free choice to obey Him or not, as long as we remember that we will have to give an account of our lives and actions.
4. Governments are an institution from God and are given the responsibility to rule justly and fairly, whether those they serve are Christian believers or not.
5. Christian rulers should base their work (as everything else in their lives) on God’s will, being informed and guided by the teachings of Christ and the Scriptures.
No. 5 does not mean, however, that we can blame God for unfair or inappropriate laws we might make. For example, I do not think a country can or should pass a law that punishes homosexual acts by death (although that is clearly commanded under Old Testament law), applying this principle willy-nilly to believers and unbelievers alike. So, yes, South Africans should seek fair laws, systems that will take the country forward and bring about justice, but no, they should not attach Christ’s name to every decision they make, thus appropriating his authority for their own purposes. I mean the kind of “thus saith the Lord” bullying so prevalent in some churches.
And yes, Shaka was certainly one of the greatest military leaders ever! I would have been afraid of living in his time, though, as much as I would have hated to live in Germany under Hitler, but that is another story.
May I encourage you (and all of us) with a simple little principle? Let us make sure we do the right we know and not judge one another on the things we or they do not fully understand.
Makube uxolo.
Helpful stuff guys, keep on.
Just an afterthought about the food shortage issue. I understand that many black South Africans live in poverty. However, poverty and food shortage are two slightly different things. Being poor but having something to eat is one thing; literally dying of hunger quite another. I have seen poverty and hunger in other African countries and in Southeast Asia that is far worse than anything I have seen in South Africa. It is not pretty when the international community, Christian and non-Christian alike, have to (voluntarily) step in and provide basic items such as flour just to keep people from dying in the streets (as happened during the communist regime in Ethiopia). I am not negating the suffering or poverty still plaguing many black South Africans, but I just want to say that the term “food shortage” should not be bandied about too lightly as if it were inconsequential and not very different from current conditions in some South African communities.
you missed the point
I just read all of this now. THANK YOU Nkosivumile. And everyone who engaged.
Sometimes we avoid the obvious answer because it is just unimaginable. Is that true for whites today?
Just want to point out a few things I’m taking away from this.
– Questioning the dominance of economics-related thinking in my own understanding of SA’s challenges, and
– The importance of not thinking that economic restoration is the only kind of restoration blacks (broad term) need. Yes, poverty and a sense of indignity seem to go together but the way people like you Nkosi talk about land redistribution is really driving home for me that healing of the black wound will be economic empowerment AND … everything else that we would want for our own families. It is embarassing that sometimes we simplify South Africa’s problem to just mean alleviating poverty.What do I want for my sister, for my husband? When someone asks me how is my sister or my husband, do I say “fine, they are earning an income”? No I think of how they are doing in their everything-ness, their holistic thing that the word “dignity” doesn’t begin to capture but it’s like dignity x wholeness x shalom. Now when that is what I want for everyone in SA, what action does that prompt in me?
And I mean talk to a successful rich black person, in government or business or wherever, and once they start to trust you, if they have been honest with themselves, this profound sense of worry and pain and guilt starts coming out because things are not yet okay and now they are somehow complicit. Which leads me to the second point
– I mean we are all told about Ubuntu the whole time but something about reading this conversation made me really how it is really Ubuntu at work in rich black people’s hearts and tells them it is not yet okay. I’m taking a deeper understanding of that away.
– I agree DA makes me sick because somewhere deep down on a psychological level everything is just so wrong. But sadly this conversation brings me no closer to articulating that in a way that other white people can hear. Either you sense it or you don’t, but that’s not very helpful.
– If neither ANC nor DA are really deeply considering “involuntary justice” then I am still searching dude. I look at Malema and I don’t see him ever getting the support of the black middle class whom I think we are going to need especially if 90% of whites are going to leave when involuntary justice happens. So, still searching. And until I can support a party that can bring structural change what do I do? Little personal things seem too small, but
– Let’s start with little personal things that seem too small like paying a living wage and investing in your employees’ children’s education (and not just maths and science; there’s a reason why blacks are drawn to history and politics, there is a search for meaning that has nothing to do with earning a good salary one day and who am I not to honour that?)… and for the sake of not focusing on economics, what else should we be using our power to do? Fund churches and counselling centres and social development things (it’s not soup kitchen when you’re helping families become more functional I think), fund and ATTEND reconciliation initiatives with your white face and ears and if need be, your tears.
– Listening with your soul, not just your educated brain, sorry if it sounds fluffy but it is real, I am finally starting to be able to read blogs like these and FIRST hear the soul and THEN hear the argument and consider its rationality. So much of our conversation as South Africans is coming from the base of our skull (you know that thing, I forget what it’s called, there where our survival instincts are), it’s no wonder we rarely make sense to each other.
I am not very good at challenging writers and asking them questions, but thank you for the opportunity to have listened and learned.
Wow, so great Cars, would LOVE to have this in blog post form as i think more readers of all colour should be able to see what you’ve walked away with – also i need to get used to your full name cos didn’t realise who you were with the last post until i saw this linked to your facebook post.
So please let me use this or right a full actual post but would love to have some more well thoughts out thoughts on this as yours here are.
LOVING this.
love brett fish
WOW!!!! Thanx Cara
Hope this is not a bribe for coming to your wedding with a “VIA” invite. Yhea I trully love this you have written I can see your heart in it!!!!!!!! LOVE IT!!!!!!
I wish Brett can allow you Cara to write something on DA and your disgust on it
[…] first prize is that you take 30 minutes [or whatever it takes] and read Nkosi’s post and then Sindile’s and the comments that followed each of them. And then follow by reading […]
I just think that a lot of white South Africans still haven’t come into proper grasp with what modern day racism in SA is -it’s no longer a set of laws yes, but it’s very much structural – in private business corporations (such as media outlets), and universities (public and private) – I think moving forward is a huge barrier in that no is truly held accountable about how they really think and feel, I just think right now we are doing a decent job of merely “tolerating” each other there’s no sense of real solidarity -moving forward requires a lot of self awareness regarding who you are and understanding your innate sense of white privilege but with the same degree I also feel that as a black nation we need to do a lot of internal work & take responsibility and not let everything that has been a plight for the black man victimize and allow for sloppy thinking and actions,..ultimately I think it will all be down to self-awareness and if there’s no one holding you accountable then people will continue to have as much self-awareness as a rock .
ha ha thankx man, great comments like this should not be lost in Facebook feed walls. Appreciate you taking the time!
[…] more recently, Nkosi Gola outlined some “Baby steps towards a really new South Afrika.” A lot of conversation happened at Anderson’s blog as a result, which he summarises at […]
[…] more recently, Nkosi Gola outlined some “Baby steps towards a really new South Afrika.” A lot of conversation happened at Anderson’s blog as a result, which he summarises at this […]
[…] for them to write on my blog and look forward to growing those relationships offline. My friend Nkosi is an absolute joy to me and is teaching me so much through some of the live conversations we have […]
[…] My friend Nkosi has written for me a number of times on this blog and so it was a great privilege to have him around for a special meal on Friday night with some friends, that i wrote about over here, and i asked him to share some of his impressions from the evening: Conversation is an integral part of transformation. It was for this reason that I went to Brett's house together with Monde Nonabe. It was a very short notice that I invited Monde to come with me and I was so happy and glad that he responded to my short notice invite. I was glad because I respect Monde's heart and passion for change in the black people's situation. I have only known Monde not for a very long time but one thing I knew is his heart for the Lord and his heart for transformation in the lives of the majority of this country. During the story telling, I was moved by Monde's story of course because mostly I could identify with his story. Our conversation with Monde began on our way to Wynberg which I was already learning a lot from his knowledge about our fallen heroes in Biko and Prof Sobukhwe. Monde has a speacial ability of linking today's problems with yesterdays happenings and hopes (should haves). When I listened to stories from the white brothers and sisters who were there I must say that I came to realisation that they themselves are victims to a system that even though they may not necessarily love but they are beneficiaries of. I listened to one white brother with teary eyes who said that he is aware of his white previlege yet he doesn't know what to do with it. Even though I myself was moved by that sincere heart but I knew that I can't lie about the fact that there is nothing much this brother could necessarily do except to join hands with blacks in dismantling and destroying the white power structure which is the cause of every pain in South Afrika and Afrika in general. I was moved about the story of Jan who has been living at a black township Kayamandi in Stellenbosch for many years. He is the only white in that area. As moving this story is but it had to be made clear that for him it was a choice that he went to live and stay in Khayamnandi unlike the blacks living in that area. I was also moved by the story of a brother from England who moved in to Mannenberg which is one of the hardcore areas in the Cape flats. I was moved that this brother was making moves and courageous, intentional actions that were to bring about change in Mannenberg. This brother told us a story about privilege on how he managed to raise up funds from contacting few friends in a short space of time for him to be able to own a house in Manenberg. It went more touching when he told a story about how was he a victim of robbery and his house being broke into and still he had a choice to either stay in Mannenberg or to live in a white surburb. This still proves that privilege gives one choice which the black majority of this country don't have. Conversation that was in Bretts house was so transforming. I think it was a safe space for such a conversation rather than the social networks. It was in that conversation that I was able to look into peoples' eyes and allow them to be broken and hopeless and hopeful with all the roller coast of emotions. I think these kind of conversations can be more progressive if they could be happening all around the country. These conversations could be more progressive if they could be taking place in the workplace. I do think that conversation like prophecy did to Israel in bring about God's view to the people, conversation puts the different world views into one. The Western Worldview which is most likely to be found amongst the whites and the Afrikan worldview which could possibly be found amongst blacks. I must thank tbV for her delicious spaghetti and mince and I would also like to thank Brett and tbV for opening their house for such hard and uncomfortable talk. [For another post by Nkosi where he speaks about first steps for South Africa, click here] […]
[…] long to hear. And in relationship with them. Taking their lead. i love how friends of mine like Nkosi, Avuyile, Tsholo and Sindile have graciously accepted the invitations and run with them on a number […]