Last night was the Passion 2016 Worship Conference in Cape Town.
Earlier in the day i had been at a significant meeting with the young folks from Disrupting Whiteness which i reflected on in this somewhat controversially titled post, ‘Sodomy: A South African Love Story’ which reminded us of an earlier definition of Sodomy which was that ‘The people of Sodom pursued lives of careless ease and ignored the poor on their doorstep.’ Which we see in Ezekiel 16:
49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
So naturally, when i walked into the Stadium preparing to host 30, 000 plus people, the very first thing i noticed was how 80% or more of them were white. Which for me was a problem.
As paid worship concerts always used to be. i’m with Keith Green on this one. Because basically it became a privileged concert for the rich. Or the relatively rich. [i was there on a Free Media ticket which somehow allowed me to justify going, but i was also quite hungry for an authentic worship experience and wanted to see how the Passion group ran one of their events].
THE MESSAGE WE NEEDED TO HEAR
Having hung out with Craig Stewart earlier in the day, when i saw 30, 000 mostly white South Africans gathered in one place to hear a talk [along with the worship] my mind went back to his ‘Audacious Hope’ talk that he gave at the Corruption March [or the #ZumaMustFall march depending on your perspective] and i just hoped and prayed that Louie Giglio would speak about Justice and the need for all South Africans to get involved when he came out and spoke later [he sadly didn’t] and just what a great opportunity this could be for a real message of the kind of change that is needed in South Africa today, especially in the church.
When i saw selfie sticks in the crowd i was disturbed. Firstly, because i hate selfie sticks [why, humans, WHY???] but just take a moment to think of the concept of a selfie stick [me, me, me] at a worship event [Him, Him, Him] and it starts to seem a little perverse. i know, i know, and now i’m the worship conference grinch too [as if Christmas wasn’t enough!] but it was even worse later on when worship was happening and so many people were doing panorama shots with their phones. So people going to a worship event to take pictures/video of people at a worship event.
i see Jesus walking through the crowds grabbing at cellphones and cameras and flinging them to the ground, ‘My house is meant to be a house of sung prayer!’
The atmosphere was electric, the crowd was pumped and when the concert got going, the people erupted in song and dance which was great. i don’t have a problem with celebration. In fact if we really believe the stuff we profess to believe then we really should be letting go a whole lot more. People getting caught up in the joy of the Lord is amazing but i know for myself it’s a fine line between that and the hype of the moment – but that is for each one of us to figure out. Crowd going off for Jesus – amazing.
THE WORDS WE SANG
But then i listened to the lyrics they were screaming out and one of them was:
Let the walls come down in Jesus name.
And my heart just dropped again for the message of Justice and the need for Christ followers in South Africa in particular [but actually just everyone] to actively be taking down the walls that exist between us.
i can’t judge someone else singing a song because i don’t know your heart and i don’t know what you’re living and how those words translate to the rest of your life BUT DO YOU REALLY MEAN THAT? Beyond this stadium, when you return home, in your street, in your neighbourhood, in your church community, are you actively working against the walls that have been put up between people who look and sound different to you? Are you actively choosing to live in areas where whiteness is not the predominant theme? Are you inviting people of colour into your lives and homes and wrestling with how together we can see the kind of restitutional change needed in South Africa?
Is “Let the walls come down” more than a catchy line in a song?
Another lyric that jumped out at me was this one:
At the cross we are united.
Oh God, let that be true. It is not at the moment. Not in the majority of the land. Not even in the majority of the church.
THE SONG THAT HIT
When Oceans started playing, i pretty much just started crying and that was when i was really able to push into worship:
= = = = =
You call me out upon the waters
The great unknown where feet may fail
And there I find You in the mystery
In oceans deep my faith will stand
Chorus:
I will call upon Your Name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine
Your grace abounds in deepest waters
Your sovereign hand will be my guide
Where feet may fail and fear surrounds me
You’ve never failed and You won’t start now
Spirit lead me where my trust is without borders
Let me walk upon the waters wherever You would call me
Take me deeper than my feet could ever wander
And my faith will be made stronger
In the presence of my Saviour
= = = = =
i was reminded that my faith is key to this thing. That social justice is good and proper in and of itself, but my faith in God means that it is crucial, not optional.
i was reminded that we deal with a God who specialises in the hard, the difficult, the unlikely, the improbably, the impossible even – that if He has called me to something, then it will happen.
i was reminded to listen for His voice and the places He is calling me over those i simply feel are good or necessary or important.
It was a powerful moment of song and prayer and commitment and reminder for me.
Be still and Know. That I am God. I care about all of this stuff way more than you do.
ALL WHO ARE PRETTY
One other largely more random [perhaps] thought i had last night when the cameras zoomed in on to the band people and singers on stage was that there were no ugly people. Any by ‘no ugly people’ i mean pretty much each person on stage could have been a model or a GQ magazine front page person.
Does it mean anything? i don’t know, but it was just something that struck me. i was chatting to tbV about it later and she suggested maybe it was something about confidence, which is a definite possibility. But it felt like some kind of choice and then the question becomes, ‘Was it an actual made conscious decision or just something that subconsciously happened?’
The far extreme of this is the idea of Worship music awards which to me seems to contradict the spirit and heart of worship completely. “Your song worshipped Jesus the best this year, have a trophy!” Stoppit!
ONE THING YOU LACK
i was thinking about this before the event started. That the church doesn’t do so well in inviting critique. i can imagine a number of people seeing this post or reading it and thinking, ‘Ah, there goes Brett again, judging this or that’ and i don’t think that is what this is – these are merely meant to be reflections – some positive, some negative, some interesting – of my time at a worship event. But we desperately as a church need to learn to invite critique – of our gatherings, of our leaders, of the way we spend our money [this one is SO MUCH NEEDED], of why we would fly our brand into another country and set up our church group in a heavily churched and wealthy area as opposed to the area of greatest need [especially if we’re claiming, “God called us to plant in Africa”] and of our events.
The part of Louis Giglio’s message that i liked the most, was where [in a talk on the word ‘teletestai’ Jesus cried from the cross, meaning ‘It is finished/done/completed/carried out] he said that one of the things that was finished on the cross was SELF. Followed up by, “Thank you to the three of you who are clapping right now” which in a night of ongoing raucous applause to the statements we liked was quite telling. Jesus Himself said it quite plainly, “If you want to follow Me, you must deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow Me.” [Luke 9.23] That was a vital part of the message and i also loved it when near the end he invited everyone to get down on their knees and open themselves up to God and what He wanted to do in and through them in South Africa [i guess if people genuinely did that, then in all likelihood God would have prompted them to pursue the Justice of all the people, so maybe there was a Justice moment after all, although it depended on people being truly open].
CLOSING THOUGHT
In John 4, Jesus defines True Worship:
23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
Followed by a definition of True Fasting in Isaiah 58:
6 “Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter—
when you see the naked, to clothe them,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?
8 Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness[a] will go before you,
and the glory of the Lord will be your rear guard.
9 Then you will call, and the Lord will answer;
you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I.“If you do away with the yoke of oppression,
with the pointing finger and malicious talk,
10 and if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry
and satisfy the needs of the oppressed,
then your light will rise in the darkness,
and your night will become like the noonday.
11 The Lord will guide you always;
he will satisfy your needs in a sun-scorched land
and will strengthen your frame.
You will be like a well-watered garden,
like a spring whose waters never fail.
12 Your people will rebuild the ancient ruins
and will raise up the age-old foundations;
you will be called Repairer of Broken Walls,
Restorer of Streets with Dwellings.
i remember a number of years ago, going to a Jars of Clay concert at N1 City and the thing that struck me the most was the lead singer, Dan Haseltine, who spoke about ‘Worship Events being the latest thing in America’ BUT also of the fact that if social justice didn’t happen as a result of a worship event, if the Kingdom of God wasn’t extended in the follow-up to a worship event, if hearts and lives and attitudes were not affected by the worship event, then worship most likely didn’t happen at all.
Was last night’s event a worship event? Only the words and lives and actions of 30, 000 mostly white people will be able to tell that in the coming days, weeks, months and years. [Or maybe those living around them].
[For the transcript to Craig’s powerful Audacious Hope speech, click here]
[If you missed reading Sodomy: A South African Love Story, click here]
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30 000 people and the ticket price ranged from R40 to R225. Let’s say the average price was R100, that’s a cool R30 Million! I’m sure when they check their bank balance they don’t care that it was white money. I feel it’s very hypocritical of them.
You need to understand that after any big concert people are hyped and succumb to mass hysteria. You’re right about them looking like models, who wouldn’t with millions in the bank and time on their hands. Your wide if right as well, who wouldn’t be confident with millions on the bank.
What do you think about all this? Looking at your other posts, you seem very much for equality or equity. Hiw can you justify this? Do you think it’s right? I’d like to better understand all this but when I see an article like this, I am more convinced than ever that it’s all about money.
Ummm.. You should check your math. 30,000 by 100 is R3,000,000 not R30,000,000. And the organizers try keep the ticket as low as possible to make it as accessible as possible. The cost of hiring the stadium and the stage rig is huge. So before you start shouting about this being ‘white money’ and them ‘doing it for the money’ you should think a little first. These guys are taking the most important message on earth to the people of the world. They are giving and sharing hope. Many people responded to the gospel and had their lives changed. I do agree with some of what Brett is saying, my wife and I had a very similar conversation on the way home. Things like ‘imagine all 30,000 people in that stadium actions God’s heart for Cape Town with as much passion as they showed tonight (at the worship event). If they did, it really would change the city. Love to you man I hope you see beyond the ideology of ‘white money rules the world.’
They taking the message and sharing it with mostly white rich kids. The rich kids are giving their money to these guys. It’s a business transaction and the margins are much higher. They travel first class and stay in 5 star hotels. They take home millions per year. They do many concerns. It’s a business.
Buying the stairway to heaven!
30 000 x 100 makes R3 million. Not 30.
Now consider the rent for the stadium, the lights, the audio gear, airplane tickets, posters, commercials, ads, and some pay for the people who make the event happen.
If they only got 3 million on this event they barely brake even if the pay is little or nothing.
That is a side point though.
It is sad that events like these become available only to the people who have and not the have nots.
But on the other hand maybe the people who have needed to pay to hear the message of dying to self.
First class tickets are quite expensive!
30000 x 100 = 3 000 000 = 3M less stadium rental cost = ?
They make millions. It doesn’t cost 3 mil to rent. They travel first class.
It’s only R3 000 000, not R30 000 000. I’m sure they made it as cheap as possible as I don’t think you can rent the stadium and get all the equipment needed for much less than that.
As cheap as possible without sacrificing the 5 star hotels, first class travel and monthly pay package.
Do you even know how much that lighting systems costs, and how much it costs to hire stadiums and for air fares to get them and all the equipment here? Excatly, it’s not a money making scheme they use the money for good and they reach broken people with it, for instance tithing unlocks heavens gates of blessings on your life, do you want to call that a money making scheme as well?
If you google a Metallica concert or U2 concert, you’ll see thousands of audience members jumping up and down, hands in the air.
Look at a Hitler rally and you will see similar.
The point im making is this is not worship at all. It’s a band using the mass hysteria techniques to glorify themselves and make lots of money. It’s audience members, looking for a big concert to attend and wanting to be a part of dome kinda hysteria.
Cameras in a church? This is not a church. You correctly stated that church should be small. I’m ordered your book by the way off Amazon. Should hopefully arrive in a week.
God blesses people who are faithful to Him, and cameras create publicity and can bring people to asking about it and then it could lead to them eventually being saved.
This is a mass hysteria concert. The selfy stick part is totally justified as its all about the show, lighting, sound system, money! Even the guy in the photo looks like a pop star.
When your mass hysteria is over, please do another article on this. I’m really disappointed.
The lighting and sound etc. Attracts non-believers, imagine a church where it’s run down, and you as an outsider, that would push you away from the church, it has to look appealing.
Bradley, you come with the assumption that Georg is a christian which i don’t think he is [Georg?] – i feel like he is helping critique this event from the outside and suggest that the money spent might be ridiculous so what feels like a christian response to you might not be helpful. But also i find this comment about a church has to look appealing to show a complete lack of understanding of what church is. Church is the people who inhabit the building and so the building should never really matter too much in that regard – even around our country there are church groups who meet around trees, in classrooms, in school halls, in coffee shops and it is the lived out lives of those people when they leave the meeting that i think is more key here.
Then it’s not church. It’s a special effects show.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KGoMTa_47fU/maxresdefault.jpg
Selfies. Just look where does the pastor take a Selfie or have photos taken of him as in the above.
At the very least we need to acknowledge that people went to Passion out of their own accord with a desire to worship. That alone is a positive. I agree with most of your article Brett but I have to ask myself if my cynicism is more a reflection of myself as apposed to the worshipers who went. I sense their passion is greater than mine and for that I am in a strange way….jealous. Years ago I would have loved this event. Pumping. It would have been a great joyful expression of my new found love. I wonder if I simply doubt the authenticity of it all because i doubt my own heart and the authenticity thereof. In response to some of the comments posted – we have no idea how they spend the money received. Manny (The boxer) earned millions of dollars for his fight against Mayweather. ….he is using it to build houses for the poor. Bottom line, we shouldn’t be making judgements based on assumption. And “the church should be small” – huh ? Not true. In the end I’m not sure what to make of all this (it’s not all good to be sure) but I do know that my heart needs more of what these people have. Selfie stick excluded.
I get your perspective but I think this article is poorly written.
Super unhelpful comment Dane. Want to point out at least one example of why you think so? Give some critique or feedback or something cos your comment is way more poorly written than the article if the hope was achieving any kind of benefit… How do i learn? How do i grow?
Thanks for stopping by
Brett Fish
It’s actually a very good article even though I don’t always agreed with the guy. He does get me thinking about what I do with my life.
This is a disgrace!! Did you go to worship God or did you go to find what was wrong with 30000 people expectant for God to move?
And by the way. “Social Injustice” what better way to give hope then the message he preached last night!
“TETELESTAI” (it is finished)
i certainly didn’t go to find out what was wrong with 30000 people expectant for God to move… BUT while i was there i saw some things that troubled me and this is what i wrote about – i also saw some things i felt were spot on and i wrote about those too. It is called critique and it is vital for the church. If we can’t look at our own events, leaders and services critically then who else will? That said everything i ever write or say HAS to be give the same kind of testing i expect everyone to do with all leaders speaking God’s word – Thessalonians – Test the spirits – hold on to the good, avoid every kind of evil… If everything i said is wrong and “disgraceful” then by all means toss it out, but if there is any Truth in there, then i hope you will pause and listen and look at what God might be saying and trust that as someone who absolutely loves God and loves His church that i am looking to do that as well – speak Truth as i see it… For South Africa right now, i think last night could have been better.
I don’t live in South Africa (never been sadly) and never to a “worship concert” either, coming from a small British island.
But as I read this article, I couldn’t help but agree. Don’t get me wrong, the idea of worshiping God with 1000s of my brothers and sisters in Christ sounds amazing, all of our voices joined as one and lifting up God, proclaiming His greatness – wonderful!
But like you, I do sometimes wonder, why are there no ugly people, fat people (I am fat!), small people, etc? Why do they all look like they came out of a magazine or clothing catalogue, Hey, they look how they look and I don’t condemn them for looking great. But surely worship bands contain other people, not just supermodels?.
But the key point you make is really it; when an event like this is finished, how does it change the perspective of the attendees?. I include myself because, whilst never having done to something like this, what about worship in church?. Do I let myself get carried away in the service but then go home and give no further thought to the needy, the helpless, the abused?. What am I doing to change this world?.
Great article Brett and, no, I don’t think you are being the Grinch. I think you are being the voice that we all need to hear, the voice that reminds us that worship is about Him, our Father, and it is about how that worship should change the way we react to the injustices in the world. Keep being that voice, even if it does make us uncomfortable.
Thank you Caroline. For me honestly the ‘ugly’ people thing was a side issue [although perhaps a valid one worth looking at but for me that was not a biggie, just an observation and reflection] but the point you make at the end is crucial – if we are not changed by an encounter with God in a meaningful way then we have to question if it actually happened… and that can only be seen in the times to come and trusting that it will be there – i have no doubt people were changed last night to some degree… but i still do think some things could have been better…
Very well said, Brett!
I’m often afraid to say anything about these kinds of events for fear of the immense backlashing that often follows. What you’ve written though carries so much weight.
Do we really mean what we say/sing?
I find it a bit hard to believe that everybody really wants “walls to come down in Jesus’ name” because if that were to happen it would imply a radical change in lifestyle.
Simply put, the dinner table conversations we have in South Africa concerning religion, politics and the poor often don’t seem to speak to a will to see “walls come down”.
Honestly, I’d rather be at a Mariah Carey concert singing sweet fantasy…because there might be a greater degree of authenticity in that.
Ah, thanks Ash,
I find it a bit hard to believe that everybody really wants “walls to come down in Jesus’ name” because if that were to happen it would imply a radical change in lifestyle.
So much so…
Thanks for an encouraging word in the midst of a lot of other types of words…
WOW, very touching, thats why i dont go to concerts like that, nobody should ever pay to hear the Gospel. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!!
I have to say that I mostly disagree with your views here. Firstly, while it is vital to see change in the lives of people in our country, we cannot make everything political. It’s ok sometimes to just do something for the sake of doing it. And in this instance and to my mind, this was a worship service plain and simple. For me, It’s not about the people on the stage, It’s about the fact that 30 000 people are coming together and worshiping and taking a stand for Jesus. Yes, those up on stage may be good looking (although not all of them were) but I have no doubt in my mind that every single one of those people up on stage love the Lord and have a passion for sharing Christ, And an incredible heart for God. Not once did I get the feeling that they were focused on themselves and bringing glory to themselves. It was all about giving God the glory. There was no reason to expect Louis G to stand up and say anything about the politics in our country. No preacher can stand up to preach and talk about the politics of a country, especially a country in which he doesn’t live! His sole aim last night was to give a gospel message and to share the love that Christ has for us, And he did that and he did it very well. We cannot expect change in our country without a heart change in each person, And the only heart change which will make any difference is if each person realises their need for Jesus and accepts Him as their Lord and Saviour. And in order for heart change to take place, people need to hear the gospel message. Which is what we got last night. What happens in people’s lives after that can only happen from the working of the Holy Spirit in their lives, And their willingness to listen and obey the Lord. Until that happens you can talk about politics and the need for change until you’re blue in the face and nothing will happen. And yes, there were more white faces. That is the unfortunate situation in our country at moment. And hopefully that will change. I myself was surrounded by people of different cultures and colour. And it was great to see. But what you need to keep in mind before you making sweeping comments about black and white is that there are many whites who would have loved to have been there but couldn’t afford it, And there are many blacks and coloured who could afford it but who didn’t want to be there. This was never meant to be a political event, it was only meant to be a place where many could gather to worship Jesus. And we can only pray that the Holy Spirit will do the work that He needs to do in each person’s life and through that to see the change needed in our country.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Amanda. i must say i am baffled by some of the things you say:
[1] Firstly, while it is vital to see change in the lives of people in our country, we cannot make everything political. – It is completely vital and i’m not sure how many people know just how much. There is a deep pain in a number of black people i know which feels like it is a majority pain and with it comes a growing anger and at some point that is going to erupt and that may not go well for those of us who didn’t do everything we could to run towards them and try figure stuff out. And so pretty much everything is political at the moment and we have to be so aware of our words and our actions and understand what affect they are having on those around us [and our lack of action] – but more importantly for me always is that it is kingdom of God. i am completely convinced that on God’s heart for South Africa at the moment is unity and reconciliation and the restitution that comes with that because the God we serve is a God of justice and these are matters of Justice… which i see glimpses of in the greatest command passage of Matthew 22 but see more deeply in Matthew 25 sheep and goats and the book of James and other places [old testament picture of Jubilee] and i feel like we miss these things at our peril – they are not add ons for the church, they are the mission of the church as set out in Isaiah 61 and then picked up again by Jesus in Luke 4…
[2] this was a worship service plain and simple – i have no idea what you mean by that but any time we come before God in worship it should NEVER just be a worship service plain and simple – if we expect to encounter God as we should every time we worship Him, then we should expect to be changed, transformed towards being more like Him and more and so the things of His heart will become more and more the things of ours, which is again everything i said above… One of the biggest problems in this country is an expectation that worship services are ‘just worship services, plain and simple’. i don’t think that is God’s heart.
[3] The good looking people thing is a distraction – that really wasn’t meant to be a main point for me and was just an observance – i don’t think it matters. Except maybe in a bigger picture sense in terms of questioning how the church tends to model the world as opposed to providing a different unique upended model for the world.
[4] Louis Giglio brought his message and they hosted the event in conjunction with a whole group of pastors who they brought out on stage so we could see them and they could join in prayer for us – it is totally within expectation that the South African contingent that helped lead and host the event could give some guidance as to the most needed message for our church at this time. Most of the critique i had in my piece was directed at us locally more than Passion because of the very reasons you state – i think we could have done better on this one.
[5] Lastly, i feel like critique is SO important in our country especially with our history and within the church. That does not mean everyone has to agree with me, which clearly is not the case here. But it does hopefully mean that everyone will look at the words i wrote and ask the Holy Spirit to point them towards Truth [some of which may be uncomfortable or even painful] and only then throw out what is not of God and hold tightly to what is of God. We absolutely have to critique our leaders, our churches and our events because we get it wrong a lot of the time [there is a big difference between criticism and critique although sometimes both are good] – look how Jesus brought critique to the religious systems and people of His day. To His followers, to the crowds. It is vital.
Get over being white! That’s how God made you. You’re dissatisfied with His creation?
No idea what you are talking about. i have no issue with being white. i have a hunger and a heart to see all of the beautiful races and cultures represented in our country have some form of equal balance and footing and opportunity and life. There is a greater responsibility i see in being white in a country that lawfully persecuted people of other colours and cultures and having been on the benefiting side of history i completely see it as part of my responsibility to do what can and needs to be done to restore equality and justice to all…
Thank you for your article. Christians general attitude towards social justice has caused me to doubt my faith a lot. It is a consolation to see that others are also finding this problematic. I wish more people could read this.
Thank you so much Sam. Really sorry that stupid people doing stupid things [or not doing better ones] has caused you to doubt your faith. The problem here is not Jesus but our response and obedience to what He is calling us to do and be, so hang in there.
Georg. I think you should learn to do math.
30 000 x R100 = R3 000 000 (R3m)
So if the concert was free i doubt you would have had more non-white people! The problem is marketing – how things are pitched and who organises it! The tribalism in CT is the problem. The concert is merely a symptom!
Im not into bussing people into events – i find it too rent a crowd like!
Basically the problem is theological. If you have a generation of biblically iliterate people who believe that God is speaking private and personal messages to each individual this is what you get! When christians dont apply their minds to God’s timeless word they will get swept up and every hyped up event.
It is a societal thing! Empty your minds of content and just be! Not fill your mind with content and be transformed!
Thanks Sean – i really liked this bit which i think is a huge part of the problem:
“If you have a generation of biblically iliterate people who believe that God is speaking private and personal messages to each individual this is what you get! When christians don’t apply their minds to God’s timeless word they will get swept up and every hyped up event.”
I think Louis would be flattered to be called pretty.
I was there last night and I had a completely different take.
I praised God with thirty thousand other Christians who wanted to praise God.
I’ve seen the pictures taken from selfie sticks on Facebook from those who love God saying ‘I’m thrilled to have worshiped God with so many like minded Christians’. Amazing for Facebook.
I also saw hands go up by people committing their life to Christ.
It was entertaining. It was excellence in the use of God’s gifts, by people who are worshiping God with them.
Your article missed that.
I’m not sorry I could afford to go. My wife and I saved up and did not go to Mumford.
I think you are brilliant and your ‘Passion’ for justice is contagious, until it hurts something worthwhile. Reading the comments by your followers your words have ‘justified’ the belief that the church is self-serving, racist and rich. Hypocritical.
Remove the people in that stadium from all mission, NGOs and giving and see the loss to the very ones you are trying to draw attention to. They are not there because they are blind to injustice or privilege. They just went to worship God and use the moment to potentially change a life if they took a friend.
I would normally not speak out, but you encourage that and you like debate.
Hey Brett. Felt your comment about 80% being white a bit exagerated. I worked at one of the gates and if those whose tickets I checked were anything to go by I would say that prob around 50% were white while 30% were coloured and about 20% black. Cant speak for the other gates nor the entire stadium, but northgate definitely not 80% white. At one stage during the eve I was actually in awe of God because of the diversity of the people waiting in the volunteer queue. I (a white guy) was even in the minority during some stages of the eve. I cant comment for the areas though.
Thanks Petrus. My post was on my reflections of being at the event and when i looked around [from the side embankment] i saw majority white people – the numbers aren’t important to the point i was trying to make and it may certainly not have been as wide as my estimate – but driving out as well, drove through hordes of mostly white people and so that’s what i spoke to. White people have been attacking that diversity point pretty strongly while black people have been Amen’ing and High fiving which has been interesting – i also think people that are not involved in those kinds of conversations [talking people generally, don’t know about you] are not as intuitive in terms of noticing that kind of stuff and for many people who were there who probably attend mostly white churches, a little bit of diversity probably seems like a lot of diversity so there is that as well.
Unbelievable! Precisly what happened when the woman came to worship Jesus, anointed his feet with a very expensive fragrance….. We heard the very same comment of those more interested with in their surroundings and justice comment: we could have sold it and given it to the poor, aka JUSTICE!
What did Jesus answer: YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE THE POOR! There will always be something that you see as important….but here, now, worshiping ME is she goal!
It has always interested me whether Jesus saying ‘You will always have the poor’ was a message into the fact that we shouldn’t worry about there being poor people cos they will always be around… or a prophetic speaking into the fact that He knew the hearts of mankind and knew that the selfish way we generally choose to live and the comfort we chase would lead to a future where the poor would always be present. The bible speaks so loudly to justice from jubilee in the old testament all the way through to Love your neighbour as yourself, the story of the Good Samaritan, the parable of the sheep and the goats, the book of James and more… God seems to have a special heart for those we don’t seem to have much room for.
In terms of the woman anointing Jesus feet, i’m not sure this is that. When your church decides to pay R50 000 000 to get a new church building makeover you can use that same argument and feel justified but i think it has to be a lot more complex than just throwing an out of context verse at a situation cos it feels like the same thing and helps make your point.
Critique of the events we hold, the things we say and the actions we live is so vital for us to all help each other figure out the best way to live and what God is calling us to do. Whether i got i partly wrong or even completely wrong, there should be space to critique and for us to engage in a healthy way rather than a judgemental one – 1 Thessalonians 5 – test the spirits – hold on to the good, avoid every kind of evil – we need to do that with everything – Jesus did it with the pharisees, with his disciples, Paul did it publicly with Peter and so on… the Truth has to be spoken in Love but it MUST be spoken and sought for.
At Loftus there were 45000 people and at one stage they all knelt and prayed for our Country …
That is incredible and i think i mentioned the fact in my post [or it might have been a comment] that 30000 people on their knees [Cape Town] is almost always likely to be an incredible and amazing thing. i wasn’t suggesting that every part of the evening was a complete waste of time or even that the event itself was, but i am very definitely saying that there was a lot that could have been done better and needs to be seriously looked at before the next time we hold an event.
Do you guys even know what Passion accomplished in America through their conferences by mere students fighting for justice… Probably not. I know alot of things is worth taking account for at Passion with selfie sticks and that nonsense when it comes to the crowd.. But do you know every individual..who actually have a sincere heart to worship God for who He is…and despite what looked selfish.. Don’t you think they wanted other people to experience what they were experiencing.. I have invited so many people of my colour of skin.. And there was either a disinterest or skepticism. Ticket prices wasn’t that expensive to begin with compared to ticket prices you would go pay for another concert…. Especially those Gaithers :-|…. The main point is this. Despite the hype, I truly do believe God done something amazing among His people. No matter how imperfect they are. Hopefully this will echo into our society. Last time they were here, the stands wasn’t that full.. People were worshiping even in the light drizzles of rain sitting on a wet field to consume the Word… Let us not underestimate what Christ can do despite our doubts
The point of my post was critique Myrlon and so some good, some bad, but overall feel and vibe of the event from my side. The need for critique is absolutely vital [whether i or others get it right or wrong] – we have to be doing that and honestly appraising and checking our hearts and actions on things [apartheid was largely allowed to continue for so long cos the global church didn’t do this enough] – was it a good thing? Probably, in many ways and for many people. Was it the best thing? Was it the thing Cape Town and South African needs right now? Those are the questions i am trying to dig deeper into and i’m not convinced on both counts.
Brett. I humbly ask that you please do yourself a favour. Next time you go to a worship concert, church service or time of ministry – leave your ego at the door. If you spent half as much time just soaking in the presence of God, who was evidently there last night, as you did critiquing the event and those around you (no matter what colour or ethnicity) you would have experienced the awesome unity that we all shared last night. Sadly it seems you missed all of that, being too busy judging and trying to find fault. I genuinely hope, from one Christian brother to another, that you re-think not only this article, but your attitude as well. God bless
Well, to be honest, that didn’t feel humble at all.
I’ve seen plenty of unity at a pop concert, big lights, people swaying arm in arm, raiding their hands… It’s group psychology or mass hysteria. Anyone in show biz knows how it all works. At least the pop stars are honest about taking the money.
Why should he leave his ego at the door when the band gets yo keep theirs? The whole thing seems counter to the Bible where it says to pray in private.
I was also at the concert (I can’t call it anything else – It was a performance, not spirit-led worship) and was sitting in the student pit. I was so so upset when at the part where people asked for salvation, there was no encouragement for people to lay their hands on each other, or to pray for those around them, or even an actual alter call, so there was no show of stepping out in faith or creation of community with the strangers around you. I think that’s what got me, they had so many amazing opportunities to pray/ speak/ act into the crowd and provoke something quite profound…but they didn’t – they just stuck to the set-list. It really made me appreciate the passion of the student churches around the city.
As much as I believe there is a major divide in South Africa when it comes to racial equality and equal chances and rights and I strive for the same, I don’t think God sees race. Having said that, I don’t think he cares who worship him last night. I think he loved being worshipped.
Proverbs 22:2
The rich and poor have this in common: The Lord made them both.
Could that money have been used elsewhere? Ofcourse. All of that money could have gone to a great cause and I also believe there are better ways to go about this. But what purpose did God have for that worship event? What was the reason he organised that evening? How many people or kids gave their life to the Lord? Perhaps one of those girls with a selfie stick. How many angels would’ve rejoiced of her coming home?
To change rich peoples hearts towards the poor will take a miracle. Than it’s also a good thing they are at a worship event. For Louie Gigilio to speak about the poverty in our country is like you going to the USA and speaking about the American constitution. He doesn’t have the context. Could he learn about the poverty in SA and have context? Of course. But perhaps God spoke to him and said, speak about this. Because there is this 1 person in the crowd that I would like to speak to tonight. Just one.
I get your heart. But speak about hope for this nation. All of those people in that stadium desperately need God. All of the people in their house, unable to feed themselves or kids, desperately need God. But hating on the rich girls with their selfie stick so called proclaiming ‘me, me, me’, you’ve missed the point of the Prodigal Son. You think the one deserve God more than the other. I don’t think reconciliation and racial equal rights is the goal. I think accepting Jesus Christ as our Lord is goal. If that happens, all else will follow.
Just my opinion on your reflections.
Thanks for stopping by and for the challenge. i think the ‘all else will follow’ that you mention right at the end is the very thing i am seeking and possibly critiquing in some of what i said in my post. Jesus Christ as Lord means that He is Lord of every aspect of our lives and it means we absolutely HAVE to critique our words and our actions, our meetings and events, and invite both the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit through people to do the same. And that is what this was. i went to the event not looking for anything specific in terms of wanting to find something to write a blog on. When i was there there were things that deeply moved me [30000 people on their knees, Louie Giglio talking a message of SELF being dead/finished/tetelestai, one particular worship song i felt God speak to me through and remind me of what He has called me to] and some things that didn’t and others that disturbed me – it is for everyone who reads this to hold on to the good and throw out the bad and not assume everything i wrote is necessarily all good or all bad… We grow in community as we sharpen each other and God will always bring good things out of stuff that happens but that doesn’t give us licence to refuse to ask the hard questions and do better things.
Sorry, I said, ‘you think the one deserve’. I can’t actually speak for that. I meant: ‘What I am getting from this blog, is that you describe like the one deserves God more than others.’
And: If that happens, all else should follow, where in many cases it doesn’t. Different story and discussion.
I wasn’t at the concert, but am sorry I did not go. The first comment here missed the point entirely. I don’t think you have it against the Passion group or the money they do or don’t make, but rather the whiteness of the South Africans. But there is a huge black middle-class in South Africa who can afford to go and who would have gone if someone they know – like TD Jakes ( if he was still alive) or Miles Munroe came.(for example) You are just enlightening the point of white privilege, which is now the new buzz word to use for the inequality in this country. ( which is a massive problem) I’ve seen a few selfie photos of people I know who did go and am commenting for all the cynicists out there – these people do a lot for the poor and some of them are basically working full time in townships. So – just to let you know – don’t draw definite conclusions from your observations.
Hi Lizette, thanks for your comments. i definitely wasn’t intending to suggest that all the people who were there were horrible people who are not doing anything for anyone else – i knew a lot of the people there and there were some quality folks for sure, doing incredible things. i would suggest though that there is a lot of movement needed for a lot of people there in terms of the conversations and actions regarding the poor and the marginalised in our country and the priority of those things in our lives. And that we need to constantly be called to those things which i absolutely believe are priority on God’s heart for our country at the moment.
The 30 million was a typo, but they do lots of concerts. They make huge money these guys and travel first class. They are the Christian millionaires. Concert that to rand…. Wow.
If people really were there for change, let them go there and donate! This way the wealthy will pay and the poor black people will be many.
I stand by what I said, it’s mostly about the hype, making money and the rockstar lifestyle. Millionaire popstars who would never compete in mainstream rock.
It sounds harsh, but Brett here is right. The majority there succumbed to mass hysteria.
What is wrong with us?? ALL OF US!!! Please help us Jesus.
Phil: 1
15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.
Hi Brett,
The issue of race and The Church in South Africa always leaves more anxiety than not in my heart.
We are very conscious of how prejudiced we are in the ways we relate to people not like us (Jesus help us) but how to take a step forward from that consciousness is a matter of wisdom, which seems very slow to come by.
As leaders of a church that is not homogeneous we know the pain of growing a diverse Church because people need to be pointed to something bigger than culture, racial norms and comforts as well as economic class and that is Jesus. I just want you to know that I appreciate your daily steps that you are taking as a white Christian to reach across your comfort zones to others who are your Family in Christ.
Phew. Thank you Vicky. Much appreciated. If only there was an easy ‘How To’ Book to show us how to do this, right?
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I was at the passion concert also and I share the reflection on this article by Brett. I arrived when Louis Giglio was sharing the word and before I had grasped and connected with what he was sharing, I had reservations about the sincererity of the (mainly white) people making up the audiance there. My reservations were based on my “township poverty” background and looking at white people, seeing them as South African white people who were expressing unreserved adoration and praise for Jesus, I (initially) couldn’t help but smell hypocricy – based on the fact that in my view they are rich or well of, and I have not a clue what all these white people that seemingly love Jesus are doing to express their empathy with the poverty that surrounds them here in Cape Town, particularly lived and experienced by black and coloured people mainly. Louis Giglio’s message exactly at that time is the only reason I came out of that jusgemental mode as he said “in Chirst there is neither male nor female, neither Gentile nor Jew, neither slave nor free – whoever is in Christ is a new creation”. From the time he said that I figured that Jesus gave His life for whomever believes in Him (black or white, rich or poor). Even when we all kneeled down and asked for God’s mercy, that to me felt exactly the thing we all needed – mercy for having lived for self all along, instead of living for Jesus and loving and expressing love to other people and races and nations and ethnicities whom Jesus has long paid the price and died for – that all may live and come to know the father. Because of the ministry of the Holy Spirit through Louis Giglio’s message I felt like I had no room nor standing to judge anybody whom Christ died for. It is up to us (me included) to express the kind of justice befitting the calling of Jesus Christ upon us who believe in Him. As much as I was asking myself “but where are the fruits of this love expressed here for Jesus”, my judgmental view was surrended to God’s work in the lives of people whom He has saved and whom He is mightily and work in their lives for the fame and celebration of His glorious name. I still share Brett’s view here though, we must bear fruits befitting of those who follow Jesus… wherever He goes.
Zakhele, thanks for stopping by and for the thoughts, i really appreciate them and you display great thinking and wrestling which is so important and i love to see the shift you had in terms of moving from judging people to reflecting on your own heart while still holding to the fact that it’s the fruit that will sing of any worship that took place – really appreciate these thoughts, thank you!
Hi Brett,
I think what you wrote is both good and not so good.
I think God is preparing you to be a pen,…learning to write and analize with critical insight without causing pain.
This all is a process as God will sharpen your pen,….sometimes the response will be flesh and other times spirit.
The key thing I see is that you are a child of God and objective without a critical spirit.
I red most of the responses and your reponse,…taking time to answer each one,….that is a very rare sight.
Your/our battle will allways be between flesh and spirit when it comes to daily living,….and how we respond.
We need to be critical so that we can test the spirits,….but allways to built and not to break, however the flesh will allways manifest showing the area that we are weak in.
I believe God created confrontation to help us to grow and change and the devil use it against us,..thats why we make it personal
So that we do not understand the article you wrote,…God will use your talents for we need a Brett like you! Bless you!
Wow, Jacques, thank you, appreciate these thoughts although not sure everyone will agree with you but i love the picture you have of what God is wanting me to be and i would love for Him to work that in me. The ‘without causing pain’ part i’m not completely sure about unless you mean intentionally meaning pain on people cos i feel like when God’s word is spoken plainly, the Truth itself often does that because it rubs against my sin and my selfishness and my self-focus and often a tearing is needed to bring me back to a place of following Him with all my heart, soul, mind and so that can be painful.
But thank you so much
love b
Hi Brett,
I mostly agree with you but some things bothered me. While I agree critique is vital, I also think there needs to be an awareness of the fact that your critique is influential. At the end of the day we all need to test what we hear, but by your own admission you didn’t think Georg was a Christian – how then should he scripturally test what you said if he isn’t likely to be in the Word? (1 Corinthians 8:9 But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.) I felt some of what you said was a bit over-critical (for e.g. ugly people, even if it was a side point – both Hillsong & Housefires have non-stereotypical looking folk and I don’t want that idea being perpetuated with people like the above commentator who laments not looking like them. That being said, the awards shows are shocking.).
I have a question, though, about Giglio’s message (or that of the local leaders) being directed at the current political climate of our country. From what I can gather, it seems you understand that it’s not necessarily Giglio’s responsibility, but the local in-the-know leaders who should know better. But my question is why? While I know reconciliation for our country must be on God’s heart, there are other things, too, right? To expect pastors locally to preach only in regards that topic would be remiss. If you could agree that we can’t preach only what speaks to our political climate, then what makes this event different? Is it because it was international or “big”? I think it’s unfair to lambaste them in any way for not preaching about what you think is foremost on God’s heart.
That aside, I really appreciate your comments on the selfie-stick (‘i see Jesus walking through the crowds grabbing at cellphones and cameras and flinging them to the ground, ‘My house is meant to be a house of sung prayer!’) and for your heart-cry to hear people really meaning what they sing. My hope is that seeds were sown in the hearts of those who were there, to be subsequently taken to those who couldn’t be there. And also thank you for pointing to specific scripture in your arguments!
Hi Tam,
Thank you so much for your words and maybe even more so the spirit in which they were delivered – this is true community, being able to sharpen each other and call people out where we see it – my post was meant to be reflections as opposed to a heavy crit piece and in hindsight i definitely would have left out the ‘ugly people’ thing but mostly because i feel it was a distraction and unhelpful when so much of the rest of the piece was serious things that troubled or excited me. But it was something that i noticed and think bears some merit in the ‘do we follow the pattern of the world or set our own pace’ argument… but much less so than anything else i said i think.
The Georg comment was simply because someone was responding to Georg assuming he was a christian and to let them know that was not necessarily the case – the piece i wrote was directed to the church and relevant to the church and so i am not expecting anyone who is not christian to test against scripture and i feel like that was clear – i imagine a post about a worship event would be largely uninteresting to those outside of the church so i don’t see any conflict there.
In terms of the preaching aspect, this is a tough one to give the best context to but it comes out of many meetings and conversations and intentional dinners i have had in the past 18 months or so since returning to South Africa and really having a heart for the race conversation which i have no doubt God has put on me. For many people who have not been having those conversations there is very likely a complete lack of awareness of just how charged the situation is and how close to revolution we might be – especially from the black population in areas of black pain and restitution – the idea that for many of them Mandela helped provide a bridge of relationship and peaceful change but sold them out in terms of economic things which is why economically for the most part the majority of the black population is still living in poverty etc etc – For the last year God has been laying Isaiah 61 on my heart again and again and again almost to ridiculous proportion and then the Luke passage where Jesus picks it up and says this is Me and My mission and then by association it is us too because we are the body of Christ. So much of the church sees this an an extra or an add on or something for ‘that group’ to do and yet when i read scripture all the way from OT pictures of Jubilee and story of Israel through to Jesus and Paul and James i see it given as ‘the thing’ – God’s heart for Justice, God’s heart for the poor – for widows and orphans and those who are neglected… i believe this is a message the whole church of South Africa [and really the world] needs to be so much more connected to and engaged with whereas we seem to focus too strongly on personal salvation and personal morality – God’s kingdom message was so much bigger than that – and so [right or wrong] i believe that is the message that 30000 gathered Christ followers need to hear [Louis Giglio’s ‘death to self’ was the closest to it and that was great!] and so i do believe that local pastors helping gauge the climate for this kind of event to take place needed to hear that – it’s not so much a political climate message [although the strong urgency of that adds to the necessity to get going on this quickly] as a kingdom of God message.
Again, it was a reflective piece and so ‘this is what i felt needed to be preached’ and it is perhaps for the church leaders and others present to test that and come to the conclusion of ‘Wow, brett was spot on, we could have done better’ or ‘No, i think brett completely got it wrong there – Louis preached the perfect message for that occasion’ and there are people who think both so really it is a tough one to truly discern but hopefully the conversations it has sparked are good ones and will help take us towards living fruit-producing lives.
i think i mentioned the Jars of Clay guy in my article but he spoke of worship events all across America a couple of years ago and then not much significant change in the day to day of peoples’ living – if Fri and Sat were such huge life-transforming powerful encounters with God then that means 70000 people here and in Joburg were dramatically changed and transformed and if that is the case then the stories should be flying off the pages – We should be asking – what has God done in your life since Saturday? What changed? Jesus has tea with Zacchaeaus and he gives most of his stuff away – i would LOVE to have the transcript of the conversation they had cos we don’t know if Jesus asked for it or called for it or hinted at it but what we know is Zacchaeaus has a life-transforming encounter and is never the same. If we don’t see that in the days, weeks and months to come, then we have to question whether anything significant happened that night at all [and that is a hard one for us to judge but maybe a great thing would be to gather all the people you have who attended a month from now and say, “Let’s hear the stories”
Tam, i appreciate your gentleness and respect and thank you for your words – i have definitely had much reason to think about what i have written every day or even maybe hour since then and i stand by most of it – i believe God’s message to the church is to get out of the building and be living this outside on the streets, in the workplace, with your finances, with where you choose to live, with how you treat those who work with you and beyond…
Thank you so much
love brett fish
Thank you for explaining! Understanding where you’re coming from helps to understand your post a lot more. I think I can understand what you’re referring to, to an extent, since I’m on campus and am surrounded by protests on a daily basis. I see the pain. So I also see what you mean now about Isaiah 61; about it being more than colour, about it being a mantle the entire body of Christ should be carrying. So in that sense, I see now how Giglio’s not being from South Africa is actually irrelevant in light of that Isaiah 61 message. That being said, I likewise stand by what I wrote. I firmly believe that it’s the Holy Spirit who brings conviction, not the speaker. If the gospel that night wasn’t enough to stir hearts, then preaching Isaiah 61 won’t either. Hebrews 1:3 speaks of ALL things being upheld by His Word. Likewise, in Isaiah 55, which speaks of God’s Word being incapable of returning to Him not having accomplished what He purposed it to do. I think hardened hearts, biblical illiteracy, self-obsession, love of comfort – these are among the culprits, and can only really be confronted and overcome with the Holy Spirit – who I believe was there.
Your second point is what hits home, though. I am super fortunate to be planted in a church committed to Isaiah 61 principles, but I am definitely going to be asking my friends how Passion changed their perspectives, their hearts, and their worship. The gospel demands response.
Amen to getting out the building! After all, we’re living stones right 🙂 Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I will be coming back to read your articles more often!
Tam.
Thanks Tax, appreciate your tone and humility – all of us are trying to figure this stuff out and it’s easier when we can play nice with each other – and i DO appreciate the challenge and the calling out but also have to try and discern what i sense to be God leading me to say and try to avoid throwing my own stuff in there [and i imagine i get it both right and wrong at times] – iron sharpens iron…
What church are you with? Also on the 2 March a bunch of us are going through to Manenberg to watch a movie on Robert Sobukwe and have some discussion afterwards and it might be a great opportunity for you to bring a carload of students through and join in the discussion – i reckon we’re all going to learn a lot that night [or three cars full if you have numbers] – there is an event on Facebook i can direct you to if you’re on there – my name is brett fish anderson and i post and share a lot of stuff on there.
Strength in Him
love b
Having read this article a couple of times and reading all the comments, I have to say that there are definitely some things in the article that I agree with to a certain degree, and some things I disagree with.
Firstly, the title of the article is quite aggressive and leads one to think that this event was a Chris Tomlin-glorifying event (which it was not).
Secondly, the first heading “The message we needed to hear” is leading in itself. Could this be perhaps “The message Brett thought we needed to hear”? I don’t think that it is appropriate of anyone to tell God what He needed to tell us. The Gospel message was preached it a very pure and simple form, and touched the hearts of many. From a heart truly transformed by the Gospel of Jesus Christ will spring forth a desire to serve Him. And from here the Holy Spirit of God can change people’s attitudes, mindsets and passions.
I am not a white South African, and yes, I saw may white people there, but I also saw a lot of coloured people and some blacks as well. Could it be that the music of Passion Band and Chris Tomlin is more popular among white people? Yes. Of course in the coloured community some of Chris’ songs are well known as well. I certainly did not see it as a concert for the privileged in any way.
This service reminded me that I am part of a bigger crowd of believers from all walks of life. I feel sorry for white folk, especially Christians, who seem to bear the brunt of criticism for their actions. I feel that white Christians should just worship God and allow the Holy Spirit to show them where and how they can serve. The same as any other Christian, regardless of race, colour or language group.
The South African context is a unique one, and I certainly would not expect, or even want Louis to talk about our political and social situation, since he would have no frame of reference and could actually do more harm than good.
By simply preaching the Gospel (planting the seed), the Holy Spirit can take over and change people’s hearts, minds and attitudes. I cannot rush the Holy Spirit nor tell it how and where and when to work. I simply have to trust God that He knows best. And I can pray for all those who had a true encounter with God. Even for those who might have been stirred and not changed. A stir is better than nothing.
Yes, challenging conventions and ideas are necessary, and getting out our comfort zones are important. But let’s not be confrontational for the sake of it, because the Bible also warns of these. Let’s rather spur each other on to love, hope and salvation.
God bless.
Thank you Francois for your thoughts and challenge. i appreciate that you’ve taken time over the article and also that you didn’t feel the need to either agree or disagree with everything.
i think it’s important to note what i thought i was doing with this piece which was simply reflecting on an event i attended, as opposed to writing a theological piece [not that i don’t back the theology in it] and so it really for me was a case of ‘these were some of the things i thought were great’ and ‘these were some of the things that disturbed me or weren’t so great’ – something like the ‘ugly people’ comment i would definitely leave out next time cos that was very distracting and not all that important and probably the biggest piece of ‘huh, that’s interesting’ from my side – it was just something i noticed and so commented on – but didn’t have the weight of the rest of what i said.
i was waiting for someone to have an issue with the title and surprisingly you are the first – it was not meant as aggressive at all but as a blogger having a title that helps raise an eyebrow or catch someone’s attention is always helpful – much more so than if i’d called it ‘My review of the passion conference’ – but at the same time it is deeply intentional – drawing the link between Passion of the Christ and Passion of the Christ to throw out a little ‘what if?’ question to the reader – for the most part i imagine people didn’t glorify Chris and Passion certainly didn’t put him on any pedestal or anything like that – however, the applause that happened when Chris’ name was mentioned over say the keyboard guy was close to double and that says a lot – for some it’s recognising a name they know and appreciate for all the great songs he has written and how he has helped influence their lives and worship and i think that’s okay – but for others it is celebrity worship and that is something that needs to be checked [along with worship awards and a bunch of other ways we have modelled worship on the world and not led our own paths and so on, but that’s a much larger question] – but it helps for each of us to look at that and go ‘Me? Yes, i should stop that’ or ‘Me? Nah, i didn’t do that.’ We need to be constantly checking our hearts and so the title was a subtle attempt at inviting that, and i don’t think there is a one size fits all response…
With the heading ‘The Message We Needed to Hear’ again it’s a blog, it’s my reflection, that feels like a given. i’m writing it and so the reflection brett fish thinks we need to hear feels like an obvious understood thing that doesn’t need to be qualified. What if i wasn’t telling God what He needed to tell us but what if i was reporting what i believe God placed on my heart that He wanted to have us speak? That is the problem with the prophetic – that any message from God is likely to rub up badly against some or all of the people hearing it – and it is the ABSOLUTE importance of something i say again and again in my writing and if you follow me for any considerable amount of time you will no doubt run into it – we HAVE to test everything we hear against scripture, we HAVE to – one of the biggest problems in the church today [i believe] is that people for the most part don’t engage with their bibles and so don’t know their bibles and so as a result whatever the pastor says up front becomes gospel truth and that is so very dangerous – the example of the Bereans in the book of Acts reminds us that checking messages against scripture is a good thing to do… so whether it’s what Louis said or what i wrote in my blog, all the messages need to be held against scripture and we invite the Holy Spirit to help lead us towards truth… if you read my response to Tam [below or possibly above, just responded to her] you will see the reasons why i believe that message is the one God is loudly trying yo get His church’s attention with and why i believe it was the most important message that could be preached to 30000 christians – i LOVED Louie’s last point about the finishedness of Self which i felt was closest to that and which as he himself said got “three people clapping” which just goes to show maybe 30000 people at a worship event aren’t necessarily all about what God wanted to say to them?
i don’t think it is criticism of white people so much as a calling to responsibility and for many of us who feel we simply inherited the mess from the previous generation that can feel pretty tough but as a Christ follower that should actually make it easier – we see the plight of those who apartheid totally broke and humiliated and the legacy of that twenty years later is still affecting the majority of the population and as Christ followers i don’t believe we can ignore that or not feel like that is the forefront of where God wants us to be involved – it was all the way through the bible as our God of Justice called His people to look out for the poor and marginalised, the orphan and widow…
The Holy Spirit stirs absolutely, but He also tends to use people to do so and perhaps challenging posts like this could be one way the Holy Spirit is calling God’s people to think and evaluate and be challenged and be changed? Again, that is something each person needs to test and hold on to or reject.
i don’t think i have ever been confrontational for the sake of it – what a waste of time and it accomplishes nothing except to make people angry – but i think the truth of the gospel is completely confrontational – when Jesus reads the Luke passage in the temple that is based on the Isaiah 61 passage that God has been chasing me down with repeatedly this last year or so and which is why i think it is a key scripture He is trying to get through to His church, the people take Him to a cliff and want to throw Him off it – it is the Truth that is confrontational because it rubs up against the sin and selfishness and greed in our own hearts – we HAVE to keep checking against that…
Strength and love and once again, thanks for the time you took jumping in and sharing your thoughts…
Brett Fish
Thanks for your thoughts Brett.
I certainly am in full agreement with you we need to test everything against the Word of God. The big problem today is that many Christians do not know the Word, hence they get swept up by all kinds of winds of falsehood and fallacies. Not knowing the Word is a dangerous place to be for any Christian, since it is our weapon to attack the evil one. (Feel like a sermon is brewing here… hehehe)
I had this discussion yesterday with some of the people in my ministry team.
Yes, God uses may things to reach people, posts like this, news articles, anything really. I trust that your blog will open the eyes of some and many will come to repentance.
The Gospel is confrontational, I fully agree, because it goes against self and sin. It disturbs the comfort and challenges the conventions and moves the soul. What I should have mentioned was that I am also many times confronted by people who like to argue about the scriptures and religion etc, which I find is draining, fruitless and damaging. And here I am not saying that you fall into this category, but it can be construed as such by some. I pray that God will impart you with great wisdom as you tackle these tough topics and questions.
Finally, as far as prophecy goes, if God has called you to preach a certain message, you do that without fear or favour. But know that you will face opposition. Also know that not all preachers are tasked with the same burdens. God has a role for each one. If we each do what he calls us to do, can you imagine how many can be reached? Do what you have to do, but careful not to fall into the trap of playing down or wanting to trivialize the ministry that God has placed on someone else’s heart. Just a word of encouragement.
Blessings
Thank you Francois, appreciate these comments and also the humble way in which they are shared. This following Jesus thing can be so difficult when we try and put it into the context of where we are and who we are around and especially as you say, if you get a message that people don’t want to hear because then you can’t just gauge the correctness of it or not from peoples’ responses and people have been completely for and completely against the stuff i have shared here so have to be deeply discerning [which i try to be with a solid group of Jesus loving people around me] and so i appreciate when people call me out because it means i can check my heart again and hopefully land on what God really is saying… i feel like far too often the church has majored on the minors [see something like homosexuality over the poor – not that homosexuality is necessarily a minor in itself and yet God speaks so MUCH MORE about the poor in Scripture and yet we tend to give so much more time to homosexuality] and needs to be called out on stuff and how to do that while at the same time as you point out, trying to not trivialise something God may have put on someone else.
Thanks for stopping by
Strength in Him
love brett fish
I think if this band were very honest, they should give a full breakdown of their income and expenses. Open it up to the public. This is the only way. If they don’t, we can be sure they are coining it nicely. First class travel, hotels and food.
If people are happy to pay this then so be it, but full disclosure is necessary.
Georg, i am not questioning the band or the Passion people – i think they are legit and i doubt they stay in 5 star hotels or travel business class [i don’t know but i would be surprised] – i’m not suggesting it’s a money-making event, i’m sure the money goes to cover the costs of the stadium etc but for me the idea of paying for a worship event feels like a bit of an oxymoron and that has always been something i’ve tried to wrap my mind around… oh and on 2 March a bunch of us are going through to Mannenberg to watch a movie on the life of Robert Sobuke which i think will be quite eye-opening – would love to have you join us and meet up over some coffee there?
“There were some who said to themselves indignantly, “Why was the ointment wasted like that? For this ointment could have been sold for more than three hundred denarii and given to the poor.” And they scolded her. But Jesus said, “Leave her alone. Why do you trouble her? She has done a beautiful thing to me. For you always have the poor with you, and whenever you want, you can do good for them. But you will not always have me. She has done what she could; she has anointed my body beforehand for burial. And truly, I say to you, wherever the gospel is proclaimed in the whole world, what she has done will be told in memory of her.”” Mark 14:4-1
I paid for tickets, for myself and my family (we are white). It was not something I could easily afford, but we sacrificed, and paid. It is money I won’t spend on school shoes this month, or a new school bag for my oldest. I wanted my children to experience worshipping God with the church in Cape Town, moments like this don’t come around often. I am glad we went. Where we sat, in the ‘cheap seats’, we met friends and strangers of all different ethnicities, from the city, the suburbs and the townships. It was beautiful.
A highlight for me was the Mexican wave, before the convert began. My 7 years old had only seen that once before, when we were given free tickets to the rugby at Newlands. To be part of that gathering of so many saints was simply brilliant, regardless of what one thinks of the worship, the good looks of the band, or the money spent.
As a footnote, for those complaining about the money. I was in the pastors’ meeting, with Louis Giglio last year, where he explained that none of the money from the event would go back to America. Ticket sales only covered some of the cost. In fact money would need to come from America to make the event possible.
Let’s not be the disciples who moaned at how the worshipper spent her money. Before we tackle that spec, let’s check for a log. Rather, let’s makes sure we are acting according to the conviction God has placed in our heart. Be faithful to Him personally. And understand that there are many callings. But, as each member does their part, the body of Christ is functional and whole.
Thanks Adam, appreciate the perspective and context of your thoughts.
I wonder how many white people would go to something like this if it were held in a township on the Cape Flats? Just wondering!
That would be amazing. i would got to that.
I have to admit – dragging the issue of colour and “privileged whites” into what is essentially a praise and worship concert is getting so painfully repetitive that you nearly lost me right from the get go. While you have several valid points in your article, many of which shot through my brain also during my Passion 2016 experience, I have to strongly disagree with you on this specific topic.
First off, Passion 2016 was decidedly different than my previous Passion experience at CT stadium. Whereas the previous Passion event was light, joyful and uplifting, this one had some “dark” elements like the intro video, parts of the overall message and also the rap band which made zero sense (neither to Louie it seemed). The praise and worship, however, was powerful and I don’t think it was too ‘showy’ at all. I’ve been playing in praise and worship bands for the last 10 years and the question of “when do we know that we’ve gone too far” has come up on several occasions. Should a praise and worship band then display humbleness by purposefully dressing themselves with old clothing, leaving their hair untouched since rolling out of bed and shut off any and all lighting that could possibly reflect off them whilst on stage? Should they only dress casually? Would a smoke machine be ok? Where do you draw the line? I think the bottom line is that God is interested in our hearts (Prov 23:26). In other words you could be far from the Lord whilst dressing casually in a dimly lit room or close to the Lord while at a Passion conference with strobe lights and a huge sound system, or vice versa. I think the Passion band all have amazing relationships with Jesus and have probably done more for the Kingdom than many of us have done.
Regarding the “privileged white” issue. Besides playing in praise and worship bands I’m also a qualified factory manager and have been leading teams of up to 80 people throughout the years. These employees include Xhosas, coloureds, Zimbabwean workers and other foreigners. I’ve made a point of having personal relationships with each of them, teaching them about the Kingdom, helping them financially and giving them Godly advice wherever I can, so I would consider myself more clued up than most regarding different cultures.
Nearly 95% of every female employee whom I’ve met between the age of 19 and 25 were unmarried with 2 to 6 children from different men. Both men and women spend outrageous amounts of money on child support and on all forms of clothing on themselves and their infants with R600 for a pair of size 1 Nike shoes being pretty common.
I’m 36, white, in a steady relationship with no children, literally spending on clothing and entertainment per year what many of the “disadvantaged” South Africans spend in a month. I CHOSE to save a couple of Rand and attend a Passion conference, but now I’m regarded as “advantaged” or the conference regarded as “for the rich elite”. Personally I think Passion was more than fairly priced (R40 for student tickets = $2.50 for the “money hungry” Passion Team, which would get them half a cup of coffee at a local Starbucks). I strongly feel that this race card should be buried deep underground at a preferably undisclosed location once and for all. Life is about choice and you have to live by the choices you make. If you choose to buy R2000 worth of jeans and jackets in a month, don’t blame the colour of my skin if you see me at a Passion conference. We all make mistakes and Jesus does forgive, but we shouldnt repeat our mistakes purposefully and knowingly (“Go and sin no more”).
I believe that 2016 is going to be a dramatic and fantastic year for South Africa where we as a nation are really going to start turning back to true worship, seeking Jesus. I would love nothing more than for all races to unite under the laws of Jesus, because that is literally the only way that everybody would be able to prosper, regardless of colour.
I don’t get it, why be so negative, I personally had a great time, I thought the message was wonderful and it was just what a lot of people needed to hear. I could waste my time and argue a lot of your points but I’m not going to, I just hope you see that it has its place and what’s the alternative anyway? Maybe it’s just the way I chose to engage and participate in it, I was more focused on God and the Holy Spirit than anything else. Let God be the judge of people and the state of their hearts. Does this article show love to God? Does this article show love to your neighbour’s? What is the purpose? Last thought, wouldn’t majority of Africans prefer to go to a conference where the message was in thier own language and they had there own praise and worship typical to their culture, would you find lots of whites there?
i’m glad you had a good time, Chris. There were moments that i found powerful and significant as well, which i spoke about. i’m not saying it was a bad thing but just perhaps critiquing whether it is the best thing for SA right now – the post shows love to God in a way of trying to listen to and understand His kingdom message for the world and for South Africa which you can see part of in Isaiah 61 and how if we are loving the least of these and looking out for the poor and marginalised then perhaps not spending a big pile of money on a feel good event for majority white and wealthy people could be what moves us closest towards that…
[…] The response to a blog post i wrote about the Passion worship event on Saturday titled, ‘The Passion of the Chris’. […]
Wow! It saddens me to read some and even most of these post…. how funny that your focus is on colour…money… and what people look like.. like you didn’t get dressed in your best to come out… where is all your hearts!!!! And focus!!!! It was an evening between you and God…. each person there had an opportunity to be in unity with others that wanted to worship God and be in His presence….together like it must be in Heaven…. it’s about NOT BEING SELF MINDED BUT GOD MINDED and sacrificing time to WORSHIP GOD ALMIGHTY! What hurts me is that I have many many friends and acquaintances of all colour and we worship without COLOUR or MONEY!!!! There is no boarders… You have totally lost the plot…. selfies… you know what.. we all take no matter where we are cause we want to hold onto that special memory and taking video clips… I took some recordings of the worship. .. I sometimes do in church as well. .. and when I’m alone and I play it.. it is a reminder of things that I openly sing and my sacrifice of praise… it’s a reminder of my commitment to God and my fellow men and to myself… it’s amazing that when there is a soccer match at the stadium or any concert of sorts anyone and everyone is there… NO MATTER THE PRICE OF THE TICKETS!!!! Why is money not an issue then… And then you find its predominantly colour… but there’s no issue then with people coming out to see ‘the show’ suddenly it’s about God and money and colour and self-esteem and walla walla walla is your concern…. I can just imagine how hurt and disappointed God must be by your thoughts and actions as HE WASN’T THE CENTRE OF YOUR BEING.. when so clearly it was an opportunity to just be in front of God… then I ask you… what you doing at the Passion conference if not to spend time in and with others praising and worshipping GOD! It was a time for everyone to come together to try and make things better… to bring about change… to kneel and pray as one…. for better for ALL!!! It saddens me that there wasn’t more people there… that this was the biggest stadium that could be used at the time…. that there was only 1 night…. when we so obviously need more time in prayer together….. if you look at everyone that was there.. it was awesome to see thin…fat… short….tall… beautiful and even those that aren’t the supermodels there… come on people… the reason everyone was there cause we wanted to be in unity with other to stand and worship God… to restore our HOPE!!!! not only in God but in all humanity… it starts with 1 person! My question to you is… Are you prepared to be the 1 to bring change in and all around you.. Can you make a difference where you are by the way you treat and see people? If we each take responsibility and make 1 change WOW HOW DIFFERENT WE WOULD ALL BE….I say DIE TO SELF….start to think of others before yourself…. everything you say and do has an effect on people all around you…. COMMON BE THE EXAMPLE OF WHAT YOU WANT!!!! IT STARTS WITH YOU…. don’t see colour … don’t focus on money… don’t focus on where you live or what you got…. cause unless you been in someone’s shoes and suffered to get there like most have then shut up and be the example and role model you so dearly want…. everyone to be….God gave us an example…. cause He knew we would always fail…. but God loves us so much that His Grace and Mercy was and is enough to love and accept you with all your faults…. so who are you not to do the same and pass it on… COMMON!!!!! STOP COMPLAINING AND EXPECTING OTHERS TO DO IT…. GOD WANTS IT TO START WITH YOU… SO GET OFF YOUR BETTS. … SO WHAT YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? I love you all… want to see us all with a better future and a better tomorrow for our children… our country… it all lies in the decision abd choices we majr… IT STARTS WITH YOU….and that….is what it’s about…
Sherry, it is so easy to say colour is not an issue when you speak as a privileged person to whom maybe colour has never been an issue. But colour in South Africa IS an issue because of the past and even now people of colour are still living with so much of the damage and debris from a legally enforced past, but even beyond that there are so many racist incidents happening on a daily basis in and around Cape Town that it’s easy for those not affected to call out, “Can’t we all just be friends?” – God’s heart all through the Bible is justice – for the poor and the marginalised and those pushed to the side and so for us to be authentic followers of Jesus we HAVE to pursue the same things that are on His heart – hopefully as you worshipped Him on Saturday something changed, because you had an encounter with God and if 30 000 people had an encounter with God then surely something massive must have shifted and we will see that in the days, weeks and months to come and that excites me… [if months from now everyone looks and sounds and lives the same then maybe we both need to question whether worship indeed happened at all, yes?] I’m not questioning whether it was a good event or not, but more whether it was the right event to have given the context of South Africa and especially Cape Town right now, without being connected to a mandate of encouraging and challenging all of the people there to remember the mission of God as set out in Isaiah 61 – too look after the poor and prisoner and to rebuild the ruins [you know where the ruins are? District six. Khayelitsha. Gugulethu. Sweet Home Farms. and so on – what are we doing about that? That is the question… And the dying to self part that Louis spoke i already said was amazing… you like to take video of people worshipping – since we’re talking what God wants at that meeting, don’t you think He’d rather have you put your phone and camera down and be worshipping Him and the next time you need a reminder then worship Him again, you don’t need pictures and videos for that.
What do you think God meant when He gave this prophecy to Amos?
21 “I hate, I despise your religious festivals;
your assemblies are a stench to me.
22 Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings,
I will not accept them.
Though you bring choice fellowship offerings,
I will have no regard for them.
23 Away with the noise of your songs!
I will not listen to the music of your harps.
24 But let justice roll on like a river,
righteousness like a never-failing stream!
It seems like He even has a bigger heart for justice than worship – is that possible?
Brett… how I wish I was a privelledge one you talk about…once I was and over night it all changed…if you only knew how I struggled to get money to go to this conference and in the end was sponsored to go… it might have made so many things easier in my life… I might not be on the street. .. does that make me privileged then. .. yes… being able to see… make me privliged then yes… begin able to get up an go to work.. then yes ….I work hard to be able to do whatever it is God wants me and my family to do… its by the Grace and mercy of God that we get through every month….God is good…we assist and help the poor far more that you will ever know.. but like the word say.. the poor you will always have.. if taking video clips is my way of worshipping then hey who are you to judge me….. you without sin cast the first stone… anyway I worship and adore God He knows my heart and He knows I’m genuine much more than I can say for most… but each will stand before God one day giving an account… you still miss my point completely when I said it all starts with you! It has nothing to do with colour, money, videos etc etc take that all away and we all the same. People created in the image of God… it has to do with what you are doing to make a difference… are you showing the love God has for you to others… people hold onto their past and hurts and miss life completely and sadly that’s what’s happening here in CT. People that have been hurt are venting out at anyone and anything… and the people that caused the hurts have moved on many years ago and believe me they don’t feel a thing… but we that live now.. who gives you the right to hold others responsible for what happened in your past.. to hurt others now for trying to make things better to have a better tomorrow for all… people choose to make a difference whether positive or whether negative… and there in lies the fault as some chose to NEVER let go of things that have happened and by doing so they choose to live a life of captivity…. not even realising that they themselves have become the ones they hate and therefore place themselves in invisible prisons and thus becoming their own worst enemies… and then they do worse than what was done to them and to those that are trying to make a difference… so sad as we are awesome people living in an incredible time and a beautiful country. . But not all want to embrace Gods love and peace and unity… one can only help so far… the rest has to come from within… that’s where trusting God without boundaries comes in… so yes… like I said before… it starts with you yourself… and what you are going to allow God to do in you to bring about a change that you can then be pass on.. to help create a brighter future for us all….
By the way Brett… I see TD Jakes… is going to be in CT from the 8-10th April 2016 at the Belleville Velodrome. .. will you be attending that as well?
[…] thousands gathered together for the Passion Worship event in Cape Town, i wrote a piece that did not go down well with a lot of people. i felt like i gave the event a fair critique, […]
[…] for two years still regularly gets more traffic than this one [unless i am sharing thoughts on the Passion Worship Event or an Angus Buchan call to prayer or some kind of political white people march or of course the […]