Hi, my name is Avuyile Tu, I hail from Khayelitsha, originally from the Eastern Cape from a small town called Lady Frere. I studied a B Com degree from the University of the Western Cape, majored in Economics and management. Currently I am employed as an assistant finance manager here in Cape Town. I am the first born son at home; I am a Christian, passionate about Christ and serving my people. I write poetry on the side for relaxation and trying to voice out the pain of the nation.
In today’s South Africa, everyone is deemed to be free and lives in a democratic society. To be free means freedom of speech, one can enter places which were specifically classified for different races under the regime of apartheid.
Now that is all said and done, but the real question is, are we all really free? This now presents a challenging and very sensitive topic to many, who assume if one brings this topic up; they push an agenda of violence and racism. Put bluntly, South Africa today is a free country as compared to the apartheid era and that is a commendable achievement, however, the disheartening factor is that a large majority of the population still live in sub-standard and poor conditions.
It is a phenomenon which one cannot easily miss as it is a big problem for the country. After two decades of freedom and democracy, many of the country’s residents (mainly black), still live in poor conditions. Everywhere around the country you will find people living in unhygienic conditions, without electricity, proper housing, water and sanitation. They struggle to make ends meet and they live in informal settlements so as to be closer to their places of employment.
This brings us to a statement that may seem biased, however, to many it may ring true (many referring to the majority of the people in question). While the whole world may see South Africa as a free country, not all its citizens are free entirely free. Freedom is no freedom if one is inhibited and limited to only certain and few choices and liberties in life. It is commendable that today people from all races are able to mix; it is commendable that we all have access to the same institutions of higher learning but for some it requires more sacrifice to just gain access to such liberties. While the South African constitution lists a whole lot of human rights, many can barely enjoy benefits to basic health, proper housing and sanitation. If one could take a tour through Khayelitsha, one can really begin to understand and to experience the atrocities left behind by the apartheid legacy.
Furthermore, some parts around Khayelitsha still have no proper houses; service delivery is so slow that these areas are prone to violent service delivery protest all year round. Now others may view this as hooliganism but if one would take a moment so as to understand the heart and pain felt by the black living in these conditions, one cannot help but feel their pain. The plight of the people living in these conditions is so dire it can be likened to those suffered and experienced by the people of Zimbabwe during their recent economic recession. (No offence to Zim citizens)
In contrast to the standard of living and the conditions in which the people of Khayelitsha are facing, one would find that the residents of a place like Camps Bay for example, live in a world totally different to that of Khayelitsha. Now the question arises, why would you make a comparison between these two areas? The answer is simple; one is “predominantly” a white area and the other a black area. According to Poswa (2008), “it is estimated that the proportion of people living in poverty in South Africa has not changed significantly between 1996 and 2001. In fact, households living in poverty and the gap between rich and poor have widened.” We all know that the majority of the country’s race is black (about 72% and about 6% white, check stassa) which then translate to a large proportion of the country’s poor. So the above said further encapsulates the main focal point, that white people and black people are still not equal, especially when it comes to economic freedom.
If one could conduct a quick study of the richest people in the country, you will notice that list of those people is dominated by white people. We do acknowledge the growth in the number of black people climbing out of poverty, but what about the vast majority that still has to go through the vicious cycle left behind by the apartheid legacy? Now whether we choose to be ignorant and say that black South Africans are lazy or look at the real factor, that one can never attain total freedom without economic freedom. Furthermore, with the current government, it does not help in the plight of the black nation as it acts in ways that further entrench the legacy and the institutions left behind by the apartheid legacy.
It is sad to be stopped by an armed response patrol unit in a white suburb area and asked what is your business in the area but take the very same person you went to visit to a black community that person will not even once be stopped and searched or asked. It is also disturbing that you have a mother of 4, leaving the house every day at 4:30 just to be at the workplace at 7am. She has to contend with muggers along the way, public transport delays just to make it on time and work 8-12 hours just to R100 for the day but the employer is able to pay that same minimum wage for a meal and pay the waiter R50 tip. From that money she has to have transport fare, food for the kids and other household essentials, there is also tuition and school uniform that she also has to factor in.
Poswa (2008) further argues:
In the City of Cape Town, like the rest of South Africa, there are vast disparities between the wealthiest communities comfortable first world conditions and the poorest, who live in conditions similar to the worst found in developing countries mainly determined by broad socio-economic and environmental factors such as income, sanitation, rather than the availability of health services, it is not surprising that there are gross health inequalities resulting from the history of apartheid. (.p.3)
Now the violent service delivery protests that are showed on the news almost every day are a culmination of the black people’s frustrations with regards to their living conditions. If we continue to ignore all the warning signs, if we continue to turn a blind eye to the plight of the black nation, many atrocities will continue to happen. It is much like the West in helping the African nations affected by the Ebola pandemic, no one has moved because it will not benefit them in any way. We may have the majority seats in parliament but that does not to absolute power as the white many still holds economic power. We have inherited a system that supports and drives the ideas of a white, which ensures he lives a life of comfort at the expense of the black nation.
To rectify and eradicate all the inequity between the people, proper justice should be done which is land restitution. In that way we shall fulfil a section of the constitution that says the people of this country shall share in the wealth of this country. Ideas as to how this can be done I have not formulated yet, however, let us give each other true justice. One needs to remember that with true justice there is pain and sacrifice. As the other party gains what was lost, the other lets go of what they gained unfairly. This does not purport violence against the white people but rather that the white man can listen and hear the cry of the black man. It is preconceived ideas and the feeling of superiority that led to this mess, now it is time to enter through the veil of neutrality and level the playing field.
[Other posts looking at First Steps towards a Truly New and United South Africa, click here]
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[…] Some thoughts on Restitution – Avuyile Tu from Khayelitsha shares some ideas on this important topic […]
Beautiful
In what way? It is very one-sided and passing blame. Aparthied is mentioned about 7 times. Why so many successful middle class black people yet these others always complain about apartheid?
Thanks for the really well worded piece Avuyile. It’s easy to follow writing like this.
I have 2 questions though where I didn’t follow the flow of your writing.
You describe the situation of many poor people in South Africa and how they lack freedom and much service delivery. Then you switch to talking about how a lot of South Africa’s wealth is still controlled by white people via businesses even though there is a black majority in government. I don’t understand the jump in logic because business isn’t there to help poor people or to give service delivery. So, regardless of race, business is trying to make a profit and pay their staff, not help the poor. To me the problem with business is primarily because of the ridiculous gap in pay between the top people and the bottom people, and so continues income inequality, largely in favour of white people, although this effect is diminishing with BEE. Would you mind discussing that a bit more?
Then the other thing that I don’t understand is how you arrive at land restitution as being an important part of this answer. Something I’ve yet to understand is why land restitution is so important in this debate. Owning land in itself doesn’t seem to me to fix anything. To me the benefits of land ownership are that a) you don’t have to rent land to live on, b) that you can use it as surety to secure a bond to generate further income through a business or, c) for use in agriculture. Land ownership on its own doesn’t seem to me to have much inherent value. Surely it must be used well to generate wealth for the owners? If so, then a proper education and handover of skills must accompany land restitution otherwise it all goes to waste. Would you mind also helping me understand the land issue?
Mr Mike T
When I talk about land I talk about the soil that supports agriculture and livestock breeding, the sub-soil that contains iron, coal, manganese, oil, diamond, gold, gas and every precious metal. I am talking about the beauty of the nature that attracts tourists which includes table mountain, the fynboos, Victoria Falls, Mbashe River, Water Front etc. I am talking about the employment conditions of people where it will be condemned that any human being, I mean anyones mother …or father to work for less than R10 an hour. I am talking about Shorprite or Pick’N’Pay or any other criminal who will continue to underpay people and yet continue operating in this beautiful land. I am talking about ownership where blacks will equally own as whites are owning. Currently all blacks have that shows that they are South Afrikan citizens is their green Identity books, with finger prints and ID number. I am talking about equality where employer will no longer be white and employee be black, I am talking about true equal citezenship. I am talking about the end of the risks empossed by the living conditions of the black people in those informal settlement. I am talking about the restoration of the dignity of the masses who have accepted hell as normality, who have welcomed and embraced slavery as the only thing. I am talking about nallifying all the words of the black middle class who are the security of the status quo in the name of globalisation. If globalisation comes at the expense of the poor to become poor(er) then to hell with globalisation. I am talking about self determination of every race in South Afrika, a place where every race will live in accordance to their convictions and not desperation. A place where we can then begin to talk about non racialism because at the moment it would be an insult to talk in those terms if there is much much gap between the races. When I talk about land I am talking about everytthing that has caused so much injustice. With all that said I mean that the land is everything. The land is economy as a whole.
Currently black people are living out on white peoples mercy and that’s not okay, it is a situation that was given birth by colonialisation and apartheid which was the grand project of colonialism. By the way apartheid remain the greatest project in South Afrika, apartheid remains the most successful project in South Afrika if we can go back to the 1940’s until to-date. Now the land is what will make black people not to be pariahs on this land but to be citizens. Land access is the end of the misery of black fathers who lives in tins like animals, the land is the answer to every South Afrikan problem that is faced today.
Mr Mike T Idealistically Education is the means to combat the problems as faced by different societies, and education is normally specific according to the problems as faced by that society. Now our colonial education system is currently not an education system to solve our own problems but it is there to solve European problems and is giving us spectacles of colonialism, and I love Frantz Fanon when he talks about imperialism he says that: “imperialism leaves behind germs of rot which we must clinically detect and remove from our land and as well as in our minds”. Our education system was never designed for our Afrikan problem as a result it breeds black middle class who are European Afrikans and have no interest in the deformities of our societies today. The problem I am talking about is found currently in Zimbabwe, the Zimbabweans are some of the most educated people in Afrika today yet Zimbabwe is one of the most poor coommunities in Afrika today, yes we can blame it on many things but also education system which is mainly Britain education also played a role. Mr Mike T I want to tell you this an afrikan problem requires an afrikan solution, now that solution pins around the type of education we have. Education has been there in Afrika and it was able to solve afrikan problems up until the slave trade error. Now that error created a system that survives and is maintained by force and violence of one group of people over the other. And That system further breed-ed a system that survives from the desperation of one group of people to serve another group of people and I want you to note that it is still that very system. I want you to note that it is that very system that took away by violence the land of the people who happens to be the majority of this country. I do agree that education is key but now lets not substitute the importance of land being returned to its rightful owners for education. The black middle class who happens to be the securities of the white pocket and who happens to be employed to tickle the white stomach whilst the majorities are sidelined are also not the owners of land. The pride and dignity of the black people was taken together with land. Let us not act as if our black great grand parents were uneducated, their land was not taken away from them because they were uneducated but it was because of the white greed. Now land first……..
The land is everything that is unfairly held by the virtue of being white. Nationalisation of mines, expropriation of land with no compensation and scrapping off all these ungodly selfish laws of “willing buyer willing seller” because in actuality it is basically to say thank you for keeping me sidelined for this long, it is to say thank you for making me a pariah in my own land. Land must be shared equally among-st Afrikans.
Still waiting for some ‘HOW’ on this my friend… who are the rightful owners and how would we get the land to them even if we wanted to?
Brett I am not willing to engage on that Khoi San issue, Khoi Sans are Afrikans and Khoisans are black people. On the how part I think I once shared on your Blogg I’m just not sure who I was talking to. Note that I said land is everything:
On the Farms
Here I personally think EFF is on point,
1) They say anyone who wants to use the land will be given the land on contract.
2) Everyone will be given a fair and equal opportunity to apply for the land with a detailed plan on what they intend to do.
3) The plans will be assesed and screening takes place and then the better plans will be given a chance to be executed. Note the plan will not be assesed according to previledge or financial background (as willing buyer willing seller).
On employement policies
1) Minimum wage must be enforced
2) Enforce laws that will not allow such huge wage differences
3)
Indigenisation
1)I also love the indigenisation idea from Zimbabwe, Where business profit gives off 41% profit to government
2) The profit goes to education, health, social welfare etc
Nationalisation of
1) mines and all stratergic institutions of the country
2) Mines and banks must be under government
i don’t think i raised the khoi/san question here my friend.
my question to your statement though would be, ‘Exactly which land are you talking about?’ All the farming land in the country? Some of it? Any land white people own? – seems a little vague.
And to be honest i just don’t have a lot of faith in the government in terms of how they have managed the economy and with all the corruption we are constantly hearing about to think that giving them 41% of anything is a good idea. If we knew that profit would go to education, health, social welfare etc then i would be hugely behind that. But it just doesn’t seem to be the present reality.
Which helps make this such a complicated process and idea…
But really hoping we can find some practical ideas going forwards…
Minimum wage is impossible. If everyone makes R1mil per month, inflation will quickly rectify it so that a loaf of bread costs R1000. It is how economics balance.
1. So anyone can apply? What if the will is there, but when they get the land they do nothing with it? What if they get a productive farm and then do nothing with it?
2. How do we know it will be a fair process? If you are ANC or EFF, surely it would be biased. I don’t see them giving land away to white people that easily.
3. How many assessors do we need and what are their qualifications? Who decides what is “better” plans?
4. Minimum wage – put that up and inflation will go up.
Wage Difference laws? You mean communism? I want to earn the same as a doctor who works long hours and I make bead baskets. I want to make the same as a top engineer when I do finger painting.
Why should the government get 41 percent of profit? So they can line their own pockets and build an Nkandla palace for every ANC minister? That is a joke, you can’t be serious. Nobody will do business here.
Brett no man should own a huge portion of land, we should have a a policy that inscribes personal ownership of land in terms of hectors. Land must be under the ownership of government, and only a certain portion can used as private estate. Currently I know of one business man who is here in Somerset who happens to own Game reserves and I am totally against that. Land must be under government.
On this question of a corrupt government I am yet to engage on it but not now. This argument of a corrupt government is like saying “Let me not buy myself a car because the rate of high jacking is so high in this country” I don’t think this is a sound reason for one not to buy a car. And also Brett for me I can’t talk of the ANC as the governement of the people but as the continuation of apartheid because I say that 1994 changed fokol. So now let’s talk of policies away from apartheid and neo-colonialism.
hm, i disagree – i think it would like saying, ‘i am going to buy a car but because of the high rate of high jacking i am going to get me an alarm and be a lot more careful and observant when i drive. also i think to say that nothing has changed since 1994 is a little extreme – the extent of changes needed may not have happened but i think the country has in many ways come a long way from where it was before, but there is still MUCH WORK to be done…
Yeah, not sure i agree with the government statement based on the government track record – you can’t turn a blind eye to that and say that this current government is trustworthy in that regard surely? i like the idea of a maximum land size per person [altho not sure how you would practically make that happen] but for sure there are some completely ridiculous scenarios out there – if i didn’t think it would get me lynchmobbed i would possibly suggest golf courses are a real waste of land and money [water alone] that could be better used for housing [the rich play games while the poor are unable to eat] as just one example…
Then Brett I think we need to first talk about the land processes and in those processes the government question must never be left out. Brett Colonialism and imperialism has and are the actual problem we facing as South Afrika today. Now what did 1994 change? Apartheid was never about the “pass law” but the emphasis of the pass law which was imperialism and colonialism. We will be in denial to say that South Afrika is free from colonial powers. And ANC as per claim is very much older than apartheid then that would mean that ANC never fullfiled their mission if all they did they ended apartheid to those who think apartheid has ended. The mission of ANC has ever been to end impearialism and colonialism and not apartheid. What happened in South Afrika is that we were taken from one master of colonialism and then taken to neo-colonialism in terms of facial government. The experience of the black people of today is not different from that of those of the 1700’s consequently black people today identifies with everything that was said in the 1700’s. So I say nothing has changed.
Hm, i am not sure i understand. The way i see it today the opportunities for black and white have becomd more equal in terms of what potentially can happen, which is not hos it was before when black was viewed as inferior to white. HOWEVER, what is nit equal today us the playong field or starting ground which is what i see needs to be levelled out a lot more. Poor people start with a huge disadvantage in terms of potential that can be reached and because majority of poor are black due to colonialism/apartheid it still looks like a colour issue and is at the moment to a large extent.
In time, i believe this will switch to more of a rich/poor problem which will still need to be addressed, but unless steps are taken to balance things out now i imagine not much movement will happen there of significance. We do have a very long way to go still but made easier the more people climb on board and engage.
“We also reject the economic exploitation of the many for the benefit of a few. We accept as policy the equitable distribution of wealth aiming, as far as I am concerned, to equality of income which to me is the only basis on which the slogan of “equal opportunities” can be founded. ” Robert Sobukhwe. I agree with Sobukhwe so for so long that I have not seen this I remain saying we do not have equal opportunities.
hahahahha Our government owning land? You got to be kidding me. They are incredibly corrupt.
Excellent question. As a rent paying citizen, do I get to keep my flat? How and whom decides what is fair.
Risk is rewarded. Why should someone who spends say 10 years risking everything, studying, building a business, failing many times and trying over and over again, building a successful business – earn the same as a 19 year old straight out of school? Why should he earn the same as someone who works at the til at his business? Risk, free market and the nature of life dictates what one earns. It is and always will be that way. I think you should get used to it. You cannot engineer it.
If everyone earns the same low salary, what incentive is there for one to become a top doctor, engineer or similar? What incentive is there to work past 7PM, or to study anything more than a janitor?
Thank you Mr Gola, appreciated.
Excellent piece, thought provoking.
I have a few questions/thoughts.
I agree that conditions in the informal settlements of Cape Town are shoddy at best and are a major contributor in the cycle of poverty. But there has been some improvement since that data from 1996/2001. The latest Gini coefficient for SA is appalling at over 0.60 but in comparison to the time you speak of it is improving and if you break up the Gini curve into racial groups you would see that the only group in SA that has improved is the 72% of the population you mention earlier, this is 2013 data from the WHO.
I am not saying that it is job done, I am just saying that this transition takes time and the stats show it is occurring.
You mention land restitution as the only solution, I see where you are coming from and would probably say that if you were to do that the people who obtain the land need to be sufficiently trained to maintain and improve the production of the land as our population is growing rapidly and we can’t afford a decrease in production (as an example our country grew by about 10 million during the Aids denial period (1996 -2003?))
Lastly, I really dislike the phrase a ‘black nation’, we are in this together, your problems should be my problems because you are my brother in Christ. That is part of what the Church is there for. By you saying and repeating a ‘black nation’ you exclude me from our nation, how can I be part of the solution if you don’t even recognise my right/joy/privilege to be apart of it?
Thanks for stopping by and for commenting Garth, some helpful questions and comments here…
Black people having fewer children will DEFINITELY go a long way to solving future problems regarding housing and feeding them all. Look at nature for example: The animals that take the most care of their offspring tend to have fewer.
If the poor are all having many kids they can’t afford, then someone else has to pay for them. This creates resentment and a feeling of not wanting to help. Go and ask others about this and you will see many feel the same.
What happens when a woman has 5 kids? Her 5 kids will each have 5 kids and so on. It is exponential and cannot be sustained no matter how you look at it.
The only answer is birth control. Push that, advertise it – invest in it. It will pay for itself more than anything else. Educate them to not have so many kids. Anyone, both whites and blacks. Keep it 1-2 kids. If you have more, then make sure you have the cash. Otherwise you are basically stealing from others expecting them to pay for your own family. If I go and steal from another person to pay for my kids, then I am a thief – same applies to the masses.
Many of the informal settlements have people who have recently ( in the last 10 years), arrived from the failed ANC run Eastern Cape. The influx of people from those areas has led to this inequality in Cape Town (where blacks have historically never lived – Xhosa and Zulu).
To Mike T and Garth, thanks for the comments, I will respond shorty to your questions.
For a black child to travel to the previously whites only school they have to go through a daunting process of waking up very early in a house at a township without electricity, bathing in cold water, traveling on a full train, not having provision for lunch time and all this has in impact in how they will perform at school. While their white counter parts are driven to school by parents, have computers at home to do their home work and their parents can afford tutors to assist them. If that same black child makes it to University even after attaining their degree the struggle continues. The black child will have to support the family financially, pay the student loan (since we do not have trust funds readily available for our studies) and pay for the studies of the other siblings. Whereas the white child does not have to face the same issues. The economic freedom is what we need in our life time and it is up to us as young people to find solutions…… A comment on my Facebook post of the above post by my friend, Zekhaya Gxotelwa.
How many brothers and sisters does this black child have? Surely the parents should have had fewer kids so that the ones they do have could be better supported? Just asking.
I don’t get why this question is asked so often, part of it is cultural reasoning , part of it is socioeconomic circumstances and in some ways could be ‘religious’ reasoning of ‘go forth and multiply’ – having too many kids is a very small part of the much bigger problem. I understand the role it plays but it is not as large as you insinuate.
Culture? Why inflict your culture upon others? If your culture is to have 10 kids, then don’t expect other cultures to pay for them. Its quite simple really.
Now you’re just being disrespectful. To simplify a very complex problem down to the songle issue in your mind of ‘too many kids’ is unhelpful, not true and rampant generalisation. This is way bigger than that so why not put down that banner and focus on slme of the other issues being raised
Disrespectful? I used to work for the council, and the biggest problem in South Africa today and for the last 20 years is the increase in the black population. They tend to have more kids than other cultures and that is a fact and a problem. It is a problem because they expect other cultures to look after them. That is disrespectful to others. Please tell us what exactly you expect people to do? Must we become their slaves?
You are making a whole lot of assumptions here thst i am not syre are correct. Are you honestly trying to tell me that black people having less children will solve all the problems?
So it’s ok for you to put your culture on them but not their culture on you? (just asking, no aggression or sarcasm intended in my tone)
Sorry my browser didn’t load you conversation with Brett.
So are you saying religion is to blame for there being millions of kids that the country struggles to feed?
I am saying that all three categories contribute towards the problem. They are not equally contributing, and I don’t have literature to confirm my observation but my experience shows me the largest contributor is the socioeconomic status.
This blog stops the REPLY button after a few levels. Not sure where to reply. You mention culture. Surely one’s culture shouldn’t expect from another culture.
There are plenty of schools near the townships. Why not attend those?
Or better yet, stay in the Eastern Cape where they voted for their beloved ANC!
To Mike T, my logic in the things that you have underlined are is as follows:
As much as the country’s parliament has a black majority, they have not done much to help the plight of the majority, which is eradicate poverty and ensure equal living standards across the board. As have stated before, service delivery between the rich and poor communities in South Africa is worlds apart, which is a pretty disturbing factor. Name one predominantly white area where service delivery protests have ever turned violent?
Now I mentioned the service delivery issue as to some extent has frustrated and angered the majority, which is the black community. Now these protests would be peaceful had it not been the same things that were promised over two decades ago, which simply means that the very same black government that is supposed to represent the majority has moved away completely from the needs of the people.
As a business and a commerce graduate, I understand the sole purpose of starting a business, to maximise owner wealth and returns on investment. However, looking at the moral side of things, it absolutely annoys me that all the above mentioned happened on the exploitation of the poor, which again is the majority. Now what good has the BEE programme served? It has only enriched a few instead of the majority and the same people who were supposed to administer it properly have turned corrupt and greedy. Now living in a country with a democracy and governed by a constitution adopted by the majority, wouldn’t there be measures put in place to ensure that workers are not exploited? I know quite a few people that work as farm workers, fruit pickers etc.. that barely make a R 1000 per month yet their employers make millions of their hard labour and toil. We all know in the ideal and perfect world these issues wouldn’t exist, however, that doesn’t mean we can try new ways, especially those deeply wanted by those in the need.
I once mentioned an article about a Zimbabwean struggle veteran in conversation with a former police officer in the apartheid regime of then Rhodesia. Now the policeman went on to say that the black people of Zimbabwe may have the rule of the country but they own the know how of the economy. Which brings me to the restitution part, only I (in reference to the black community) know what exactly I desire to see me lead a better life. Now we have inherited something that is foreign to the black man of which in order to eradicate poverty from, we must find our own way to do things.
Garth my friend I am sorry to have offended you, however, I appreciate that you claim the African birthright. Let it not be mistaken that I am excluding you from the struggles faced by our people, but I used that terminology to reference the black community. Now as Christians, I stand with you. Now as I said in my piece, it is commendable that we have had an increase in wealth of some of the black people, however, we need to look closely as to who is it in earnest. Now part of this growth can be attributed to the BEE programme which Mike T brought up which failed to make the impact it was intended for. Moreover, this rise can be factored by those few individuals who have obtained higher education and after so many years practising in industry, they start reaping the benefits. We all know that in varsity you are promised high paying jobs, but in the corporate world reality is you start at the bottom to the top. Now these figures may be inflated by such factors.
Hopefully I have covered the questions posed at me by you guys 🙂
You mention equal living standards. Are you saying that a top surgeon should be living in a lower income RDP house, neighbours with a guy who washes windows twice a week? Can you please clarify this for us.
We live in a free market. There are always fruit pickers and business owners. How does one engineer the situation to make it more fair? I don’t know. Perhaps a share of the profits. I agree that it should be a profit share in a way to make it more fair.
Greetings. You are from the Eastern Cape – an area under ANC rule. May I ask you if you are an ANC supporter? If the ANC is doing such a good job in that area, why has it collapsed economically, forcing you to seek better pastures in DA run areas? If Cape Town is so terrible and “white”, then why not stay in the paradise of Eastern Cape. As a degree holder in economics you should perhaps have stayed in the Eastern Cape and set about improving it economically.
Are we free? No. Nobody is completely free – that is but a dream. There must always be rules in place to stop people from imposing on the freewill of others. You claim that the large majority still live in poor conditions. That is true. However, the key word here is “Still”. The majority of the population are actually in the 0 -20 age category – in other words “born frees”. Why are people having so many children that they cannot afford? Who is meant to feed, clothe and provide for them? There are simply not enough “whites”, or “blacks” of means to do too much. If it were an even number of people who were middle-class to well off, and an equal number of poor, then it would b easy to help. However the ratio could be as high as 7 to 1. i.e. seven poor to one person of means. How can one person support seven? I really don’t think it is possible even if that person worked 15 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Houses, electricity, roads, service delivery – all these things cost money, man-hours and resources. Where do they come from? Where do they come from in Cape Town for example when hundreds of thousands of people from the Eastern Cape have arrived here en-masse looking for a better life. The Western Cape cannot really budget for this influx. Perhaps if more money were allocated from the fiscus, perhaps. However it feels like an increasing burden.
Why don’t the many rioters and/or unemployed or dissatisfied people get out there and offer to provide their own services? After all they do receive plenty from the state (working or “white” or wealthy “black” people). They should perhaps do the service delivery and instead of burning tyres, clean the roads in their areas, dig runoff gutters to alleviate floodwaters during the rains. This type of constructive behavior will show the “whites” that they actually want to improve things, not just want handouts.
“Service delivery” – cleaning toilets, moving rubbish away, electricity. This could all be done by the residents themselves. There are plenty of unemployed who could spend an hour a day cleaning up.
Whenever I drive past the townships, I see plenty of DSTV dishes. Can you explain this? How do they afford this?
The world of Camps bay is totally different to the lives of most “whites” as well, let me tell you. Make no mistake on that. I live in a small flat in Newlands and I battle to pay rent. My salary is hardly enough and I work long hours, even on Saturdays. I work in graphic design and it can get tiring sitting in front of a computer monitor all day. When the weekend eventually comes, believe me I just want to rest. When I hear “apartheid”, I really think “excuse”, “blame” or “give me something”. It really is tiring, even for mnay black people to always hear it. Go to any nightclub in town and you will see hard working black people who are making it happen for themselves.
It is a well known fact that the poor have more kids than the wealthy. Blacks in South Africa, especially in townships tend to have more kids. This could also be a factor in poverty.
The richest people in the country are dominated by black and white.
Regarding walking in neighbourhoods, a black person walking in a white neighbourhood at 4PM will be stopped, just as much as a white person. I used to walk around my neighbourhod in the early hours and I too have been stopped by ADT. It is not racism. Its just a reflection of the crime in SA. Anyone walking the streets at that time does look suspicious.
Are you suggesting that whoever arrives in Cape Town, from the Eastern Cape should be given a house and service delivery for free? Who must pay for all of this? Even Mrs Sisulu in the ANC says that people under 40 should not expect a free house.
It is your ANC who has been given 20 years to improve SA. Why does someone like Motsepe have 30 billion rand while the poor suffer? Why are all the top in the ANC worth hundreds of millions? Why does Zuma live in a palace worth 240 million? Why does your ANC shoot striking miners? This all happened post 1994.
What is the point of land restitution when most black people don’t know how to farm? What land may I ask? Do you have records of any Xhosa or Zulu owning land in the 1500s or 1600s? Please tell us which areas and pieces of land.
Stop looking for a handout – get to work and prove yourself. Whenever someone mentions apartheid, it is a copout. People have made it under far worse conditions. Are you proposing a communist country? Even in a communist country everyone works. There is vast unemployment and the only way to move this country forward is if the poor who do not have jobs, get out there and volunteer to fix this country as well. It is a two-way streak.
People will be more willing to give, to help the poor, if they could see that it actually works or helps them. Sometimes it feels like a black hole (excuse the pun). If I see the poor cleaning their streets and providing their taxis to drop of rubbish at the rubbish dumps, then I’ll be more willing to help. At the moment it feels like as much as I give, it is never appreciated, and the more one gives, the more they expect or hate us for not giving more. That is my genuine thought on this matter. Please can someone comment on this.
The problem I find with giving to the poor is the scattergun approach that is often applied to it, ie hand outs at the robots etc. There really needs to be an organised approach to even personal giving and a patience to allow the seeds sown to grow, we often want to see bang for our buck or instant results but we need to see ourselves as part of the process.
If we allow our feelings to say this problem is insurmountable, we begin to believe it but in reality Christ is much bigger than this problem and if we lean into him we can find the solutions to end the cycle of poverty. We might not be as fortunate as William Wilberforce as see the fruit of our labour, because it really will be hard work, but maybe our kids will see the gorgeous ripe fruit.
Or maybe they will want more, more and more. Once they have it all, they may still be bitter about apartheid and then make AA even more strict, make laws that say we can’t own property and even kick us out the country or worse.
Why should any of us want to sacrifice when we can’t see the fruits of our labor? We work hard, laboring everyday and we hardly see many fruits. Are you saying we must become slaves to the poor and work just for them? Sorry, but I wont do that. I want to enjoy life as well.
No, we should not be slaves to the poor. The poor should not be slaves to us either. I wouldn’t ask for either situation.
One purely economic reason for wanting to up lift the poor is that the wealthier a population the more weather I can generate as it has the capital to invest appropriately and your design business would boom as more companies will need logos and advertising and websites.
A biblical example would be when people laid the profits of sale of land at the apostles feet. In that community there was no need. That is incredible! How cool would it be if the community of Cape Town had no need? That does not mean we all live in Camps Bay, just that our needs are met, and the Church needs to play an active role in this regard.
We are already slaves to the poor. They receive grants which we have to work long hours to provide. This is forced on us. In other words it is theft – called by another word.
How is it possible to uplift the poor and make them wealthy when each of them has many kids that are poor? How can they be uplifted when they refuse to even clean in fromnt of their own doorsteps?
Alex, you know that is not the intention of the grant system and my view is that the vast majority of recipients of grants would not survive without it. It affords people the opportunity to go and look for work knowing that the basic needs of the child is met. Besides, how do you pay for food, school fees, clothing and toys for a month for less than R2000?
Every system gets abused but that does not mean the system is bad. I hear your frustration and it is a two way street, you can’t help people who don’t want to be helped. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t leave a legacy of compassion and care for those in desperate need.
So you are saying that we must pay these grants? Please tell me why? Why not let it be voluntary. Its really not our problems. If they want kids, then they must support them. Alternatively take birth control. Its not that hard really. Come on.
If we live in any country we have to submit to the authority of a governing structure which we implicitly trust to provide services and fulfil certain functions. One of those functions is to create an economic stability for the citizens of that country. It is far cheaper to pay a grant to provide some economic support for the destitute than to pay for the sociological and health effects of not paying the grant. As a society it is much better to increase the wealth of the poorest among you as you will find that the wealthy will still grow, but if you just focus on the wealthy and leave the rest, that society crumbles. Note here that I am not advocating for socialism.
“Furthermore, some parts around Khayelitsha still have no proper houses; service delivery is so slow that these areas are prone to violent service delivery protest all year round. Now others may view this as hooliganism but if one would take a moment so as to understand the heart and pain felt by the black living in these conditions, one cannot help but feel their pain. The plight of the people living in these conditions is so dire it can be likened to those suffered and experienced by the people of Zimbabwe during their recent economic recession. (No offence to Zim citizens)”
How does one build houses for a continued and escalating amount of people fleeing the ANC run Eastern Cape? You build one house and 50 more people arrive from the Eastern Cape.
This money must come from the working people of Cape Town, many of whom don’t even have their own houses. Can you please explain why they should buy you a house first before their own families?
You ask a good question, revenue collection is very important and very difficult. The need is quite obvious. I would be interested in how you would answer your own question. In your other posts you raise some goods points
I think that Cape Town can’t afford to not invest in the lower socioeconomic areas. If we want to see transformation and empowerment occurring in these suburbs then infrastructure needs to be built and maintained (and not burnt down by local residents..). We need to try to create employment in these communities so that they can start to attract business and people from other suburbs to generate cash flow into the area. Much the same way Camps Bay attracts business and people from other areas to invest in them. Admittedly Camps Bay is a very poor example as it’s residents represent the top.0.001% of the country’s earners, but I think the principle still stands. I would appreciate your insights.
Thank-you. I am trying to view it from both sides but it is difficult.
Cape Town is investing in the lower economy areas. However the influx of people from the failed ANC run areas is putting a huge strain on the budget. Secondly if one invests in these people from the Eastern Cape, wouldn’t cape town become too crowded as their family and friends back home in the Eastern Cape will think of Cape Town as a utopia and flock here in the millions, which would lead to a shanty town for everyone and rampant crime as many won’t find employment. Make it attractive and the problem gets worse in other words.
There is employment in these areas. They must get up off their couch/char/bottle crate or whatever, and get out there onto the streets and clean up the litter. Clean up the roads, empty their toilets, dig ditches and help out. Do something! There is always work to do and one can do it even if you are in a township. I often clean the outside of my flat, and pick up mess that others have made. Why can’t this be done in the townships by he locals? Or are they going to blame apartheid again and again?
Alex, i can’t speak about the townships here but we lived in a really low economy area in Philly which in many respects was township like and was beset by huge problems like drugs, unemployment, single parent families and violence and what i can testify from that area is there were a number of people who, despite having next to nothing, tried to find pride in their area and were outside often with brooms and bags cleaning away the trash and the next day they would be out there again – i imagine the same is true of many township families who didn’t necessarily choose that place to live but still are making the most of it – i used to witness countless men outside Stellenbosch when we lived there sitting on the edge of the road waiting for guys with bakkies to stop and pick them up for work – always more work than people and so many would be left after sitting hours in the sun waiting, wanting to work and yet returning home empty handed – to call the people lazy and resourceless and unwilling to work or clean is to paint with a broad stroked brush something that might be true for some but probably not true of the majority, including those who have to leave home at 4 or 5 in the morning to go and look after mostly white peoples kids or houses at the expense of their own…
You are talking about the USA. Every township I have been in, I see litter. I see people throwing bottles out of cars – and it is always black people doing it. It is a culture thing – they don’t understand litter. This is the mindset that causes civilized people to not want to help them. At my work, there is a toilet used by the whole office. It is cleaned every morning yet is filthy by noon. My office is in view of the toilet (lucky me), and I made notes of who goes in, and what the state of the toilet is after their visit. Let me just say that a certain race – blacks tend to make a huge mess of the toilet. Urine all over the floor, toilet, even near the door of the toilet. I once confronted a guy who went into a clean toilet and left it in a terrible mess. He claimed I was racist for asking him these questions and claimed that the toilet was not in a bad state. This is what we deal with.
The alternative? They sit at home looking after their own kids and who pays for all this sitting about and kids? Do we live in an age of slavery? Of course one must get out there and work. If she is not educated then I guess being a maid is not so bad -at least it is money!
“It is also disturbing that you have a mother of 4, leaving the house every day at 4:30 just to be at the workplace at 7am. She has to contend with muggers along the way, public transport delays just to make it on time and work 8-12 hours just to R100 for the day but the employer is able to pay that same minimum wage for a meal and pay the waiter R50 tip. From that money she has to have transport fare, food for the kids and other household essentials, there is also tuition and school uniform that she also has to factor in.”
After she had 2 kids, why didn’t she go on birth control if she couldn’t afford the kids? Those 4 kids are paid for by the state in the form of medical, grants and other benefits. The state in-turn gets its money from the working people. Nobody forced her to have 4 kids. Its quite easy to visit a clinic and get birth control pills for free like most white girls do. Why have kids you cannot afford and then have a sob story about apartheid, expecting others to pay for them? I am all for helping kids, but there comes a point where people should also help themselves.
To be very honest, if I saw this guy walking around my neighborhood at 4AM, I’d definitely call ADT and have him checked out. There are way too many car robberies and break-ins all done by a certain race. No harm being checked out.
Mr Alex, as much as I find your questions interesting, you have somehow posed them in a rather very offensive manner. How can one make such a statement ” Why are people having so many children that they cannot afford? Who is meant to feed, clothe and provide for them?”, which to me is testament of how much you do not the plight of the people in question. Driving by Khayelitsha does not necessarily mean living and seeing the things I witness each day.
Moreover, you quoted out of context when it comes to being stopped and searched in Camps Bay, maybe I should have been more clearer, I went there at 11 am on Saturday, along with my brother, not everyone is working that day, secondly, no one in their right mind would attempt mugging or any sort of crime in flip flops in case they have to flee from the police. Many of those satellite dishes you see may very well be “white elephants”, afforded the first few months then the owner couldn’t manage any more.
This thing about poor people flooding Cape Town, a DA run place is also in some level derogatory. Now as a person who hails from the Eastern Cape and proudly so, this statement to me perpetuates that people from the Eastern Cape are not allowed migrate within their own country’s borders. Now any rational and thinking man would do the same, even the nomads migrate in search of a place where their safety, shelter and food shall be available.
How do you expect a man to think and innovate when they are hungry to such an extent their stomach is rumbling in class or the lecture room with 200 other students? Now not every black man that you see is looking for hand outs, not every black man is making excuses not to try and get a better life. I once had a Chinese quote on my labour economics textbook that said “give a man a fish, you feed him for one day, teach a man how to fish, you feed him for a life time”. Now for you to insinuate that we are looking for hand outs is out of point, all we want is true justice, no violence, no quarrels. I think my brother Nkosi has eluded to some of the ways in which how this would be done.
If as a person you were really interested in helping the poor, you don’t have to wait until I start cleaning in order for you to pick up the broom and sweep, you don’t have to ask for permission as to help out, however, you just dive straight into it and ask how can I help, not what the rest of the west does, doing what they think is sufficient. Many white people say they want to help but really all they do is stand on the side lines and watch. If it bothered you so much the issue of the poor living in our country’s borders, then you would have done something to help eradicate and alleviate poverty and inequality.
I really took offence to some of the things you have said, however, let it be known this is no personal attack to you, rather a discussion as I had an open mind when I write this that some of the comments will not be exactly in line with my thinking but rather views expressed from the many individuals in this forum.
Why should people care about their plight if they don’t seem to care about the litter on their streets, about looking after their own kids? They seem to like having kids, but not wanting to look after them. So why should others care?
There are plenty of satellite dishes. I heard most are pirate chips in the decoders, allowing them free DSTV. They also have free electricity in the form of many illegal connections. They also get free electricity up to a certain number of units per month, subsidized by the middle and upper classes.
People may migrate around the country, but then the government should allocate money to those areas. They cannot expect to come to cape town and then expect money from the people of cape town’s rates. This is unfair. If you come to cape town, at least bring something useful, don’t simply riot and make demands. There simply is not enough money to provide everything for these people. They voted ANC in their own areas, so stay there and make it happen.
Innovation: Give me some examples of black people inventing things and innovating? There are not many at all.
Why don’t the people in the townships get out there and clean up? They don’t care about their own areas so why should we? Please, please tell me why we should if your people don’t even bother to clean up your own areas?
Why haven’t the people who have had 2 kids, go for the pill or other means of birth control? One cannot simply have more and more kids – it is not sustainable.
You’re starting to sound like a bit of a stuck record there Alex and the last comment you wrote i won’t publish cos it’s simply rude and racist. This blog is aiming to be a place where people can wrestle with ideas and be challenged and grow but it doesn’t feel like you are interested in that? Here is a question i am interested in – do you have any friends who live in the townships? Would go a huge way towards hearing and understanding where others are coming from. Your comments seem to indicate you see yourself as better somehow? Also genuine friendship would help remove the “us” “them” mentality a lot of your statements seem to indicate.
I don’t see how it is rude or racist if its the truth. Why not publish it and get people debating. It is how I feel, so tell me I am wrong. Don’t simply say I am rude and racist.
Okay here is the main question.
Religion aside. I know you have beliefs and all, but lets look at this purely scientifically. Say there was an island with 100 people on. Why should 20 of of those people be forced to pay for 50 who are not working and taking to the bottle? The other 30 are working, but for small amounts. Why? Surely the lazy should die out and survival of the fittest? Isn’t that how nature works?
Religion aside, i still believe that because we are talking about people and not animals and things that changes the ehole synopsis. I also believe that if 50 of the people on the island start off with ten coconuts between them and the 20 people start with 2000 coconuts between them, that there is a serious need for some redistribution before any kind of judgement is made on anyone on the island’s current position.
One question: If you are so for equality, why did you choose a white woman as a wife? Surely you could have met a black woman? Also, why do you spend money on recreation when that could all go to the poor? Surely you should be eating pap and rice and give the rest to the poor?
When someone is wealthy, they will most likely be living in a nice house in Camps Bay. Why are they not allowed this? Surely they should be allowed to do with their cash as they please?
I really am tired of all the moaning by black people – always apartheid – always struggling. It is getting beyond boring and lame now. Nobody will answer my question as to why they don’t clean up their own streets. Why are they not digging ditches and fixing up their areas? Take pride. Clean up after yourselves once you’ve been to the beach. Did you see the condition of some of the beaches where black people went on New Years Day. Many blacks got so drunk they even forgot their kids on the beach. It is ridiculous.
It makes people not want to help them. Trust me, there are many many white people who used to help, but now will no longer do it as they don’t want to make it easy for them to have more and more kids. That is the mindset of many white people. How do we address this?
That’s the last one Alex, save your time. You’re done here. Get to know some people from other race groups and build some genuine friendships. Go visit a township and get to know some people there. Then come back and share some thoughts. As long as you view yourself as better simply based on the colour of your skin, you will continue to spew unkind, unhelpful and meaningless drivel like you’re doing here. Any truth in what you are saying is lost in the attitude, arrogance and lack of compassion that comes through your words. Seriously, please move along…
My question to you Alex is, who determines what number of kids should one have in order for it to be suitable? Secondly, have you ever spent so much as about an hour or two around the township to understand what is really going on?
What you refer to as litter, is a lack of some essential public good that the government should have delivered. Clearly you are against the ANC which is your freedom and your right but do not mistaken imposing your ideologies and thinking as being in discussion.
You heard that most DSTV’s around the township have pirate chips which means free DSTV? Don’t you think Multichoice would have come up with measures to eradicate such crimes by now? Now you mention illegal connections, if everyone had plenty would you think there would be so much crime going around? Now if you took a moment of your time and hear the voice of the people in question maybe you may have a different view to the way you approach these things.
Who would want kids they cannot afford to raise? Many of them have babies not because its all they know how to do, but the situation forces them to, too poverty and alcohol, but I can clearly see you have are oblivious to the situation faced by many.
I do agree with you on the litter part. I have seen it countless times. I don’t think they see litter as it happens all over. When it is bin day, I always notice litter strewn outside as the vagrants dig in the bins and then leave it for others to clean up. It really is annoying and I don’t know what to do about it.
The DSTV dishes – most are pirate chips. Many of the electricity connections are also illegal.
Regarding the inventions, I don’t think it is part of their culture. They are more nomadic and it is more about the present that thinking too much to the future. In some ways it is good if you live in an ancient culture, but it doesn’t gel too well with the modern culture.
Alex:
“You are talking about the USA. Every township I have been in, I see litter. I see people throwing bottles out of cars – and it is always black people doing it. It is a culture thing – they don’t understand litter. This is the mindset that causes civilized people to not want to help them”
The above quoted is testament to my response to you. What determines being civilised? That shoot a cow instead of slaughtering it? To eat with a fork and knife rather than with your hands?
I love some of the facts that Brett mentioned, you clearly don’t understand the true brokenness of the people and how their dignity and self pride was taken away from them. Clearly you have no issues with a mother working those crazy hours just to barely get her kids through school while the father is broken so much inside he turns to drinking alcohol because he cannot afford to provide for his kids.
Surely one should rather turn towards providing for his family than being selfish and taking to the bottle, stealing and making more babies? Why support people like that? So they can have more kids like them?
How does one afford alcohol if he cannot provide for his kids? You mean not he “cannot”, but he chooses not to. If one can afford alcohol, one can afford food for your kids.
Why is this the same all over the world? Blacks always struggling and hard done by. Why so many in jails across the world?
If you are honestly wanting to know the answer to this question then read a bookcalled The New Jim Crow – it explains the history behind mass incarceration of black people on the USA and it is much bigger than your implied idea of “mire black people are in jail therefore black people are more likely to be criminals” – there are systems in place in society that have engineered that result very successfully.
I think not. Blacks were murdering one another in Africa long before whites arrived. Tribes killed one another. Look even recently the hutus killed a million tsutsis in Rwanda. Was it whites to blame? I think not. Go read a few more books.
There were many whites who were as complicit in that whole affair by sitting back and doing nothing or mostly getting out of the way. So yes to more book reading.
So the million get killed by blacks and now the whites are to blame? This shows you that no matter what anyone says you will be a libtard. Is this the only way to get funding from your ngo? Why not go tomorrow and live in a commune with blacks in Wynberg or town? Let us see what you are doing by example. Show us.
I did live in Khayamandi township for 18 months before i got married and we just got back from 18 months living in Philly in another similar area with a lot of drugs and violence and yet even there saw much example of the goodness of people. That is an easy one my friend.
Avuyile and Brett,
Firstly, thank you for creating space to discuss these topics so robustly, I have enjoyed the discussions.
I was wondering what you both thought of how to change the perception of the poor? In the relatively short time I have been reading Brett’s blog, those opposed to helping have used very similar arguments and very similar hearts behind the questions that they are asking. It seems that as the discussion goes on their position becomes more staunch.
How do you think their minds and ideas can be changed? It really seems like it is not an issue for many as they think that 20years of freedom means that all is well and their responsibility is over. I would greatly appreciate your thoughts.
Interesting and contructive. My thoughts:
1. They poor should help themselves. Lets see them clean their own areas. Lets see them getting good marks in school. Lets see them volunteering to come into town and clean up the streets. Lets see them get bags and go clean up the beaches. Lets see them growing little vegetable gardens in pots or tyres. Lets see them offer to wash people’s cars.
2. Lets see them perhaps vote another party besides EFF or ANC. Many white people think that if they want those corrupt parties in power then they deserve what they get. If they are struggling while their government steal, then let them struggle. If they struggle they might vote for another party someday.
3. Whites are in the minority. Many feel that they are under attack (farm murders, AA, BEE), everything is against whites now, and only getting worse. Our own government sings about killing the boer. This forces white people into a closed mindset of looking after their own.
I mean help themselves as well. Not us not help them, just that they must also be seen to help themselves.
I only have time to respond to the first point at the moment, but hopefully tomorrow I can reply to the rest.
I do note your clarification Larry, and I think I understand your point of view. But I don’t think that, even with that clarification, that should stop is from helping, there are so many who really can’t help themselves to begin with and need that support to start the process. I am a Christian, and I believe that Jesus helped me when I was the most destitute I could have been, separated from God. And I did not seek help for rescue from my poverty but Jesus started the process of the greatest restitution in my life.
The way I see it, the problem of the physical poverty before us needs to be actively and persistently addressed by those who have the means to, if we are to overcome it. I definitely think that this physical poverty we see can be corrected, because I have seen a greater poverty already overcome.
I think they will respond in kind if they see that people actually care for them. Like Brett has said before, the person with 5 pairs of shoes can (and should) share with the person who has none.
On the last two points..
I had honestly never considered your second point before, I often got caught up in who I should vote for not that there are many viable options, there were a few false dawns with parties that split from the ANC. Although I can see why some (not all) vote ANC and say they will always vote for them, because of what was done for them and to them during Apartheid by the various parties. Some feel like there is no choice as they ended the Nats rule and therefore they owe their vote to them. I also get what you are saying about giving people what they wish for but have you heard an ANC rally in the Eastern Cape? Sometimes people just trust that they will get what they are promised. I am not making excuses, I am just processing and trying see what you think.
On the last point, do you think that mindset is right? and what would overcome those fears and closed mindsets?
Thanks for your insights.
Hi Garth, thankx for stopping by and bringing calm but challenging questioning and response. Honestly i believe the best way is exposure and connection – i have no doubt that most of the people taking issue on these topics, if they met some people from a township around a meal and got to know them, would change their tune. The moment an “issue” becomes a person or a family, or better yet, a friend, then everything changes. It is a lot harder to dismiss it because it doesn’t affect you any more. My wife and i are busy looking for a place to live [and one of the criteria is not surrounded by people who look like us, ie white people] and we are wanting it to be fairly big so that we can show hospitality and one of the ideas is meals and conversation so one of the things could be bringing very different people together just for conversation sake and see what happens. As i heard somewhere else it is not that rich people don’t like poor people, it’s that rich and poor people don’t know each other. i think that’s a huge piece and that it may happen one conversation or meal at a time and so the more people who take on the challenge [and maybe when we have our own place we can issue a challenge to those we know] the more effective it can be overall… Another way is something like Habitat that gets people working alongside each other – so often business people working alongside the person who is receiving the house and relationships can be forged in those spaces as well. i do believe it is a marathon though, not a sprint… and that we need a whole lot more creative ideas than i have at my disposal right now…
How about small vegetable gardens? I know of some families in the townships that make use of tyres and grow potatoes and even mielies. The amount produced is quite a lot – surprising amount for such a small space. Something like potatoes is very easy to grow.
Composting bins. All that is needed is a container and you are on your way. Put in all old bits from the kitchen, peels in this and add some earthworms and you will soon have rich soil/compost to grow vegetables in.
Teach a man to fish or grow his own food and he is wealthier than before. There are many sitting idle in the townships and they could be growing their own food quite easily.
Can you imagine a whole township doing this. They would really be able to lift themselves out of poverty. Even local vegetable patches in their areas could dramatically help.
Some helpful ideas Larry and i think you will find there are a lot of people trying things like that. But what is often needed is for the people with the skills or the ideas to go in and build relationships and teach people how to get started on those things.
Do you think it could be done through the Churches? There are many poor who attend and in a way the money could be really put to good use. Growing kits, old tyres, soil and a bit of know how, seeds and they could all be doing something truly productive and learn about growing things for when they eventually get larger plots of land to grow on.
Absolutely. I know a lot of churches are involved in different ways already. I think what this needs is not a person or group to be doong the work, but for us as anation to put our hands up and reach out in practical and probably costly ways to help those who dont have enough. I’m not talking about everyone becoming poor, but about the guy with five pairs of shoes maybe sharing with the guy who has none for example.
http://joburg.org.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6657:learners-grow-green-fingers&catid=118:education&Itemid=199
Amazing what people can start. Very easy and productive. Maybe you could summarize this into a single A4 and make it available here with pictures. Some could translate it into Xhosa or even keep it mostly in the form of pictures. I would print it out and help distribute in the townships.
Larry, i love your thinking and totally it is projects like this that help life communities as well as the education that comes with them. i do feel like there are a bunch of people doing these kinds of things in Cape Town and those are some of the stories we need to see more of…
http://joburg.org.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4300:food-garden-at-soweto-school&catid=136&Itemid=222
You seem ignorant. They can’t even grow a weed.
Wow! Just go away Corne. Take your racism and spam someone else’s blog.
1. Grants: Of the total 15 932 473 grant beneficiaries last year, 70% (11 125 946) received child support grants. A total of R39.6bn was paid out on child support grants during 2013/14. Most of this money comes from the working white and black middle class people. What do these grant recipients do to contribute to society? Can someone please give us some examples? What will the situation be in 10 years time, or even 20 years time? Will it be double the amount receiving grants. I really don’t think it can be sustained. Perhaps the Western Cape should separate from the rest of the country. If it is a culture thing, then why must others pay for it? Mathematically the grant system is falling apart. More emphasis should be on curbing the population growth for now – free birth control and education on not having too many kids you cannot afford. Thoughts?
2. Refugees: When hundreds of thousands of people arrive in the western cape, isn’t it unfair of them to expect free houses and free everything? They are from the Eastern Cape which is an ANC run area. Most whites in the Western Cape don’t own houses, so why should these EC people expect free houses? It sounds very biased and unfair.
3. Land re-distribution: What land, how much and where is the proof that you owned such land. How far back do we go on this? 1994, 1980, 1900, 1800….? If that is the case, then surely I could lay a claim on the Romans or Greeks or Germans for some land my ancestors might have owned. It is really a pie in the sky idea. Then comes the how? How does one hand over land to those who have no clue about farming.
4. Minimum wage: How does one enforce this? What must the minimum wage be? For example, how much would a top graduate such as a scientist, doctor, engineer earn versus a checkout til operator? Should there be incentives to spend 7 years studying? Should those that risk their money starting businesses not be rewarded more? Can you please get into some details here. Its all very well saying there must be minimum wage, but how much, and where is it capped for the top earners? Wouldn’t it stifle growth? Some professions like stock brokers I agree should be capped, as they really are just gamblers. However engineers, scientists, doctors these are constructive and should be encouraged with greater earnings/rewards. Can we get the ball rolling on this one? Free market vs. socialism/communism? Look at history and let me know where the latter has worked.
5. The bible tells us that we should sweep our own doorsteps first. Why as the posters above mentioned, don’t the service delivery protesters clean their own areas? It is fairly easy to do. Demanding service delivery and destroying infrastructure is not doing their plight any good. Clean up and people will notice and try to help. It will go a long way to restoring your dignity and pride.
6. European culture. Black people must choose if they want that, or their own pre-colonial culture. I don’t think they mix too well. If they choose the pre-colonial culture then the best way would be to divide the country into two. However I don’t think that will happen now. They must choose to have the best of one or the other, not both. You can’t have ubuntu and also want taxis, nice clothes and many babies, and others must pay.
7. Apartheid. Yes it did a lot of harm. However point 6 above could have been a contributing factor. Verwoerd was an intelligent man. The division could have been well intentioned at first as the cultures back then were very much different. It, like BEE and AA today, was the result of something prior to that. These ideas don’t just happen. Something makes them happen. I would like to hear a black person write an article, trying to put themselves in a white person’s shoes of today. We didn’t cause apartheid or have any part of it. As a 30 year old white male, I did not cause it. I feel sidelined today as it is very difficult to find a job with AA. When I do get work, I keep all that money saved away just in case I am on hard times again. I don’t even tip car-guards, let alone help with charity. Not because I am mean and uncaring, but because I know I’ll be on the streets should I ever be retrenched.
The way to reconciliation is two-sided. We need more articles on what black people should do to help the process, not just on what white people should do.
How much do you want per month for those who don’t work but sponge?
I’m not sure what gives you and some other comment writers here the impression that i, or we, are talking about free handouts to spongy people? That hasn’t been stated ir implied at all. What we are talking aboug is restitution for past wrongs on the one hand and levelling the playing field on the other so that people have simolar opportunities when they start. Those who are lazy and want to sponge will still not go far but those who want opportunities to work hard and have a great chance of giving their families enough will be more likely to succeed.
Your arrogance is amazing. Who must pay for proper houses for these people from the eastern Cape? Me? Sorry but it’s not going to happen. That arrogance is what will alienate these refugees even more.
Hey Brett,
I have had a few encounters with people who’ve had racial issues, but Corne and his buddy Alex they take the cake.
Clearly there are those that think that black people want to sponge and not earn their keep. However, that is not the case.
To Garth, interesting questions you raised there, especially the last one. Honestly, I think it is preconceived ideas and chauvinistic thinking that has led to such inequalities and brokenness within the black people. Had the whites come through the veil of neutrality when they first met black people, maybe none of this would be discussed today but humans living in harmony with one another.
Unfortunately, one can never change a mindset that has been programmed with such ideologies. It is not easy when one has been made to view the black people as being rowdy and uncivilised. I loved a comment from Brett to our “dear” friend Alex that if he can try and spend time in a township, maybe he may start seeing black as not “them” but as people with emotions and flesh and blood, that he may start learning about us, (excuse the irony). It is unfortunate that many whites have this biased view of the black people.
There’s an Afrikaans saying, “val van skanse van die vel”, translated to English, the fall of barriers of the skin. But seemingly that is a long way from now but its no crime to keep pushing.
Yes, thanks Avuyile and sorry you had to read some of those – believe me i deleted some that were far worse. There are always going to be people [that you will typically find in comments sections where you can say what you want and be super brave while hiding behind a fake name or identity] who are filled with hate and like you say a lot of that was programmed into them, but i have hope for the majority of people who are not like that and hopefully as we continue to dialogue and create conversation and engagement we can see more people learning and growing and embracing change. We do have some way to go…
Well said Sir, I couldn’t agree more, one can never rectify a problem without proper diagnosis.
You can never learn about me unless you with me and you can never understand my pain if you have never taken the time to listen to me. Its those simple and small things that I wish that could happen.
Trust me the world could be a place of harmony had we not been prejudiced in some way or another.
Oh speed up that day, sir. May we both live to see it!
How were you prejudiced in 1652 or around then? Surely it was rather a culture clash? Modern vs primitive?